"History calling...history calling" (I'm trying to echo London Calling here...) a historical correction here probably answers this rules question. The scenarios in which penal troops are called for, and all those which should have them added to the o.b. should include the proviso that for every 3 penal units included or added to scenarios representing Soviet Offensives from Aug 42 on, one NKVD machine gun unit is also included, at no victory point cost. The NKVD units are there solely to fire upon Penal units that don't advance their full movement allowance or don't engage in assault. Actual Smersh units were assigned to Penal companies for this purpose, and RKKA machine gun companies were suborned to the NKVD if enough Smersh troops were not available on the spot.
The Wehrmacht player controls the NKVD unit and may fire it at any disobedient penal unit or at any RKKA or Guards unit seen retreating. The unit is considered activated whenever the penal troops are activated, and the German player can move the smersh unit to keep in MG range. This is the only situation where activating your own troops provides a free activation for your opponent. Barrier troops were probably the most highly motivated and feared state troops of the war.
That sounds like a rather cool experiment. We might have trouble with it playing double-blind, but otherwise I like it.
(11-21-2012, 06:44 AM)larry marak Wrote: [ -> ]"History calling...history calling" (I'm trying to echo London Calling here...) a historical correction here probably answers this rules question. The in which penal troops are called for, and all those which should have them added to the o.b. should include the proviso that for every 3 penal units included or added to scenarios representing Soviet Offensives from Aug 42 on, one NKVD machine gun unit is also included, at no victory point cost. The NKVD units are there solely to fire apon Penal units that don't advance their full movement allowance or don't engage in assault. Actual Smersh units were assigned to Penal companies for this purpose, and RKKA machine gun companies were suborned to the NKVD if enough Smersh troops were not available on the spot.
The Wehrmacht player controls the NKVD unit and may fire it at any disobedient penal unit or at any RKKA or Guards unit retreating. The unit is considered activated whenever the penal troops are activated, and the German player can move the smersh unit to keep in MG range. This is the only situation where activating your own troops provides a free activation for your opponent. Barrier troops were probably the most highly motivated and feared state troops of the war.
I like this, I really like this. I'm going to have to try this the next time I end up at the Eastern Front. The only problem is that I'm curently chilling on the beach at Saipan. I just finished the first amphib landing and am getting ready for another go at the IJA. Otherwise I'd put something Soviet on the table to try this suggestion.
Michael
(11-21-2012, 06:03 AM)plloyd1010 Wrote: [ -> ]Actually they do sometimes count as (ie: not excluded from) step losses in RW & BD. Do not in HoSU. Do in TB. What exactly do you think I missed about that?
I assume this was directed at someone else and thus solicits no further response from me.
(11-21-2012, 06:44 AM)larry marak Wrote: [ -> ]"History calling...history calling" (I'm trying to echo London Calling here...) a historical correction here probably answers this rules question. The in which penal troops are called for, and all those which should have them added to the o.b. should include the proviso that for every 3 penal units included or added to scenarios representing Soviet Offensives from Aug 42 on, one NKVD machine gun unit is also included, at no victory point cost. The NKVD units are there solely to fire apon Penal units that don't advance their full movement allowance or don't engage in assault. Actual Smersh units were assigned to Penal companies for this purpose, and RKKA machine gun companies were suborned to the NKVD if enough Smersh troops were not available on the spot.
The Wehrmacht player controls the NKVD unit and may fire it at any disobedient penal unit or at any RKKA or Guards unit retreating. The unit is considered activated whenever the penal troops are activated, and the German player can move the smersh unit to keep in MG range. This is the only situation where activating your own troops provides a free activation for your opponent. Barrier troops were probably the most highly motivated and feared state troops of the war.
I think it is easier to implement moving at max speed than trying to figure out these units. More interesting is the fact that most troops did survive, 50%, and were reintegrated into RKKA units. Toward the later part of the war this was not as dramatic as in the first part of the war. Comrade Stalin was quite PO'ed at the amount of surrendering and giving up that was occurring and ordered that all of these troops be treated as criminals and pushed back into battle under penalty of death as noted in many history texts. But once the war was going back toward the Soviet side, many of these penal units were reassigned to crappy duty instead of force to charge enemy HMG's and point out minefields.
New question about penal units:
If a penal unit attempts recovery and fails, does it follow the usual fleeing rules, or does it remain in place? After all, there are those machine guns behind them . . .
Since the rules do not say otherwise, I'm deducing that penal units do flee per the usual rules.
Anyone seen any clarifications on this, or have an opinion?
Thanks,
Robin
As the rules don't specify, I would have them flee, if they can. I would look at it as their officers have lost the will to push them forward.
Thanks for the reply. That's the way I'm playing it. Next time, I may try Larry's suggestion,
Rules for Penal Troops Post #31, and keep the NKVD machine guns between the Penal units and the nearest 'safe' hexes.