06-17-2012, 09:57 AM,
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Poor Yorek
Sergeant Major
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Posts: 607
Threads: 51
Joined: Jun 2012
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RE: A haiku to uselessness: the ATR
^
I didn't suggest that the IG can't do anything, just "not much." From context, I thought it was clear that I was simply pointing out a unit of *relative* weakness (or, perhaps, a unit whose DF factor does not correspond to its actual utility?) that, as I recalled, had been discussed previously in the same vein as the ATR.
Of course, in your stack suggestion, one now brings in the three-units-in-a-hex col shift along with the artillery col shift. So DF and BF attacks vs. that stack will be punishing in return. Is the added firepower to shift to the 16DF col worth the shifts to be suffered by the Grens (and the IG itself) against enemy fire?
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06-17-2012, 10:18 AM,
(This post was last modified: 06-17-2012, 10:18 AM by Michael Murphy.)
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RE: A haiku to uselessness: the ATR
You have to weigh the risk versus gain ratio. If your 16 DF attack can blast something juicy, with good column shifts, then who cares if the stack is vulnerable to return fire? You just have to pick your spots to set up a "deathstar" stack. That remain true regardless of which game system you use.
2,500 years ago people worshiped cats. The cats have never forgotten this!
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06-17-2012, 11:40 AM,
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campsawyer
First Lieutenant
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Posts: 1,023
Threads: 34
Joined: May 2012
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RE: A haiku to uselessness: the ATR
(06-17-2012, 09:57 AM)Poor Yorek Wrote: ^
I didn't suggest that the IG can't do anything, just "not much." From context, I thought it was clear that I was simply pointing out a unit of *relative* weakness (or, perhaps, a unit whose DF factor does not correspond to its actual utility?) that, as I recalled, had been discussed previously in the same vein as the ATR.
Of course, in your stack suggestion, one now brings in the three-units-in-a-hex col shift along with the artillery col shift. So DF and BF attacks vs. that stack will be punishing in return. Is the added firepower to shift to the 16DF col worth the shifts to be suffered by the Grens (and the IG itself) against enemy fire?
In all my plays, I have yet to see a unit that does not have a function, which I believe is more important than strength or weakness, as all the units have both. What function a unit brings to a scenario allows you to use all your units rather than discounting them because they are to "weak". If you think this, you well keep all of your "weaker" units out of the battle giving your opponent advantage.
As for the stacking, I would not need to set them up in a "triple decker" to achieve the result. I leave it to you to see the how to do this.
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06-18-2012, 02:01 AM,
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vince hughes
Second Lieutenant
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Posts: 1,310
Threads: 61
Joined: May 2012
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RE: A haiku to uselessness: the ATR
(06-17-2012, 01:34 PM)Poor Yorek Wrote: But I see no further purpose in pursuing this topic.
PY,
This is a forum. Its a discussion not an argument and should be taken as such. NO topic of interesting debate should be blithely tossed away as "No further point in talking"
As a full-time axis player in ftf games, I can suggest that the IG gun be used from distance and if 'combined' is done so with a leader using his fire group mod. of '1' or '2'.
There are players I have played against who will testify that this weapon is more than useful. For a starter. DEM units up to 11, yes 11 hexes away will have to flee. Thats some distance. Even when 11 hexes away, imagine a unit fleeing and you opp fire with this baby. With the opp fire bonus, it still fires on the 4 column. Even if a M MC is obtained, that puts the DEM unit under pressure for a compound DEM loss.
Its also worth remembering to dig these guys in in such situations just to at least give them some protection. I tend to put a leader adjacent to them so they do not get caught up in any fire and yet can still assist with morale.
Also, as road blocks they can be a pain. With a leader, dug-in, they will 'hit' from the 5 column in assault when blocking locations, and can therefore punch a M2 MC on the opposition before they even get a chance to reply. Useful ?
However. In games where a unit loss gives the opposition a VP, then I agree that their use has to be assesed. Is their loss worth the 1 VP ?
Anyway, all in all, I think their main use is from distance, especially if there are two of them !
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06-18-2012, 02:18 PM,
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RE: A haiku to uselessness: the ATR
I wouldnt have thought that the usefulness of the 75mm IG was even up for debate, i think they are very handy.
oh well, different strokes for different folks
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