low Saipan sales numbers...

[larry marak]

We're all gettin' kinda old here. Average age seems to be mid-50's. Interest in the Pacific and Asian theatres of operations may be related to where your relatives fought in WW2. My dad was a navy weapons technician, spent the entire war at the navy's weapons testing center on the Inyo-Kern county border in the Mohave desert. Was one week from shipping out to the Pacific when they asked for any servicemen with electronic experience...

My dad's brother was a Marine the whole nine-yards...Guadalcanal through Iwo Jima.

Their sister Margaret joined the WACs and wore army boots.

I've always thought of WW2 starting on the Marco Polo Bridge (I've stood there) and ending in Tokyo Bay. Which sort of leaves North Africa and Europe as side shows.

So I'm ready to buy the next two Pacific/Asian theatre products currently under development, and will gladly pledge for Jay's brainstorms as well.

[Michael Murphy]

I'm 58 and I have mobility issues. I plan on cutting my games purchases down toward zero. I have enough unplayed PG scenarios alone to keep me busy for several years. That doesn't include any of the other games that I presently own. I have discarded many more games than what I presently own. In a word, I don't need any more games.

[Shad]

As for Shad's cognitive dissonance regarding why one might have no interest in Pacific Theatre land warfare, one might as well ask why one person is into air combat (or likes to build model airplanes), whereas the next person is into sea warfare (or prefers to build model ships), whereas ... there's no accounting for taste sometimes. :hrugs::

A fair point! For me all land is playable. I certainly like some terrain / regions more than others and get in moods where I only want to play certain things, but I would never totally write off a PG game based on theater alone. To each their own.

[Shad]

That Saipan is being published this year at all is the result of KSF's failure to catch fire.

It was hoped that KSF would cause the PG line to catch fire once again, and enough product would move to enable AVP to produce a die-cut Sword of David release. Dr. B. has stated that the sales were disappointing.....almost all the faithful had ordered the game in the last 6 years and players who had drifted away didn't come back. With the new micro office-warehouse, only a limited number of black silk boxes can be kept in inventory, The boxes made available for Remember the Maine and then Saipan were released from reserve for anticipated orders for KSF that never materialized.
Unlike KSF, Saipan is bringing in new money into the coffers. Hopefully enough new money (along with perhaps at least 6 additional new PG books with counters currently in the wings) to finance a retail press run.

This interesting bit of insight got overshadowed by the ensuing kerfluffle. Thanks for sharing, Larrry. I was not aware of the deeper meaning behind Saipan's timing.

[Dean_P]

I'm coming to the party late, and have little (ok, no...) contact with AP, so take this for what it's worth, but I wonder about the viability of laser printing such a large game. I have heard, and maybe J6S can correct me, that laser printing a sheet is much more expensive than die cutting. EFD retails for $79, KSF for $75. Same number of counters... Saipan has fewer counters (just shy of 500), but is $15 cheaper than EFD.

From a numbers/dollars aspect, I worry that AP is selling each game at a loss but hoping to make it up in volume. If nothing else, it's clear that they're working on paper-thin margins...

Oh, and 300 copies in less than a couple months to me would be a very good sales rate... especially for a "troubled" company like AP

[Shad]

I'm coming to the party late, and have little (ok, no...) contact with AP, so take this for what it's worth, but I wonder about the viability of laser printing such a large game. I have heard, and maybe J6S can correct me, that laser printing a sheet is much more expensive than die cutting. EFD retails for $79, KSF for $75. Same number of counters... Saipan has fewer counters (just shy of 500), but is $15 cheaper than EFD.

From a numbers/dollars aspect, I worry that AP is selling each game at a loss but hoping to make it up in volume. If nothing else, it's clear that they're working on paper-thin margins...

Oh, and 300 copies in less than a couple months to me would be a very good sales rate... especially for a "troubled" company like AP

It's clear that laser-cut counters cost more per sheet, how much more I don't know. AP is unable to put together enough cash to pay for a die-cut run and then sit on that inventory while it trickles out. They gain flexibility with laser-cutting but trade-off part of their margin. This is reasonable, I think.

My concern with the 300 copies is based on my belief (perhaps erroneous) that the vast majority of sales occur right when the new game is released. With no evidence whatsoever, I would be willing to bet that something like 80% of total Saipan sales in a three year window would occur in the first 2 months.

Now I may be completely wrong in which case there's really no need to worry. But my observations of our community structure and my gut tells me the total number of Saipan games in circulation a year from now won't break 600 regardless of how many AP can pay to produce in advance.

[Dean_P]

It's clear that laser-cut counters cost more per sheet, how much more I don't know. AP is unable to put together enough cash to pay for a die-cut run and then sit on that inventory while it trickles out. They gain flexibility with laser-cutting but trade-off part of their margin. This is reasonable, I think.

My concern with the 300 copies is based on my belief (perhaps erroneous) that the vast majority of sales occur right when the new game is released. With no evidence whatsoever, I would be willing to bet that something like 80% of total Saipan sales in a three year window would occur in the first 2 months.

Now I may be completely wrong in which case there's really no need to worry. But my observations of our community structure and my gut tells me the total number of Saipan games in circulation a year from now won't break 600 regardless of how many AP can pay to produce in advance.

Imagine, though, if a game never goes out of print. Need a copy? Just get it laser cut. That paradigm shift would be unheard of in wargames. The big problem then is keeping some semblance of control over the number of games.

From what I heard (again, for whatever that's worth), there's not much cost benefit to big runs of laser print counters. Therefore, the cost is directly related to the number of counters. And there's no such thing as "backorder". If someone wants something that you don't have a copy sitting on the shelf, send the file to your printer/cutter and a few days later it's ready to ship.

I do wonder though, what's the quality control issues with the laser cutter? What percentage of sheets aren't shippable due to scorch marks?

[Shad]

If someone wants something that you don't have a copy sitting on the shelf, send the file to your printer/cutter and a few days later it's ready to ship.

That's true, but you're also incurring a lot of shipping costs that are either raising your retail prices or cutting further into your margins.

If they print 300 laser sheets they can get a bulk delivery.

If you buy one game from me and it's psuedo-in-stock then I am paying postage from that supplier, then sending you the game once I assemble it.

Ideally AP buys their own printer, but I have no idea how much that costs and even if it was only a few hundred bucks it's probably beyond their ability to manage. Best to leave the operations/maintenance risk in someone else's hands.

[vince hughes]

I've always thought of WW2 starting on the Marco Polo Bridge (I've stood there) and ending in Tokyo Bay. Which sort of leaves North Africa and Europe as side shows.

Cheeky bastard ! lol

I found it weird when I went to the National Cemetary in Washington (or is it actually Arlington) and saw the WW2 inscription 1941-1945.

Now that is a curveball to a European

[vince hughes]

I also had a couple more thoughts on this matter (as originally posed by the watery one):

By not selling to retailers, none of these new laser cut products are going overseas. Not sure what amount of AP sales used to be to Europe and Asia, but without a US conduit, I would not be willing to pay the postage on games sent one at a time. Instead, I have to group them at my secret base deep in the N.American continent (a bored out caisson in a huge tree in an un-named National Park) before having them sent en masse !

Secondly, lets be honest. As much as we are glad that AP are getting product out the factory and into the streets, the fact remains that for most people ('most' derived from forum posters on CSW and some I have played). that the laser-cut counters are not really up to the standard of the die-cuts. Fortunately, the Kursk SS are used seperate to other SS produce, but the Russian mix does not stand too attractively next to their old die-cut counter-parts (no pun intended with the 'counter' 'part' of that word ).

At present, AP is more like a niche 'mail-order catalogue' company as opposed to a High-Street 'Biggie' in the wargames World. That alone will kerb sales as their offerings may fail to get past the more hard-core, in-the-know buyers and to the more general 'browsing' customer.