Height of Bocage/Hedges/Hedgerows final ruling

[Blackcloud6]

The height of Bocage/Hedges/Hedgerows, hereafter called "hedges," was not explicitly stated in the rules and there has been many threads about this issue.  So I asked Mike Benninghof for an official ruling on this and also asked that it be consistent across the series for simplicity sake.  Although he realizes that in real life many of these hedges are not 20 meters tall, the game effect is that they need to be, so his answer is a "design-for-effect" answer and that, for game purposes, they are 20 meters tall. he also notes that the notes for the original design intent of the game series was that the hedges are to be 20 meters tall.

Can we add this to the annotated rules?

Here is the email exchange:

My email asking the question: 

Hi Dr. Mike:

I hope all is well with you.  I'm about to play a Beyond Normandy scenario against someone, and the heights of the hedges always seem to perplex us as it is not stated anywhere as to what it is.  We are assuming that the height is 20 meters just like woods.  Leonard posted the attached document some years ago that shows that Bocage hedges in Normandy 44 are 20 meters tall.  Where that came from, I don't know.  

Can we get an official ruling on this?  I recommend that they be 20 meters tall across all the games as it makes it simple to remember.

Thanks, 

Fred

His response:

Good to hear from you, hadn't in a while. 

I didn't design those rules or the games that include them. The bocage walls themselves are not anything close to 20 meters high. But that's not the same as their game effect.


Digging out Knipple's original draft, it's written to imply that your 20-meter suggestion was the intent (the game design pre-dates the current rules mechanism). Go with that.

[plloyd1010]

A quick says otherwise, and several references come up with this summation:Key Aspects of the Bocage Hedgerows:

• Structure: They consist of a sturdy embankment (often 3 to 5 feet high) with a thick, tangled hedge of small trees, bushes, and vines growing on top, often bringing the total barrier height closer to 15 feet.
  
• Historical Context (1944): During the Battle of Normandy, these hedgerows were on average about 5 meters (around 16 feet) tall.
  
• Sunken Lanes: Because many hedgerows run alongside sunken lanes (roads eroded over centuries), the combination of the bank and the hedge can cause them to tower up to 20 feet or more over the road bed.
  
• Composition: The vegetation consists of dense brambles, shrubs, and small trees—such as oak, ash, and hazel—making them nearly impossible to cut through with standard equipment, creating a significant barrier.
  
• Density: The region, particularly the Manche department, is known for its high density of these hedges, with some areas featuring an average of over 100 meters of hedge per hectare.
  

[Blackcloud6]

A quick says otherwise, and several references come up with this summation:Key Aspects of the Bocage Hedgerows:

• Structure: They consist of a sturdy embankment (often 3 to 5 feet high) with a thick, tangled hedge of small trees, bushes, and vines growing on top, often bringing the total barrier height closer to 15 feet.
  
• Historical Context (1944): During the Battle of Normandy, these hedgerows were on average about 5 meters (around 16 feet) tall.
  
• Sunken Lanes: Because many hedgerows run alongside sunken lanes (roads eroded over centuries), the combination of the bank and the hedge can cause them to tower up to 20 feet or more over the road bed.
  
• Composition: The vegetation consists of dense brambles, shrubs, and small trees—such as oak, ash, and hazel—making them nearly impossible to cut through with standard equipment, creating a significant barrier.
  
• Density: The region, particularly the Manche department, is known for its high density of these hedges, with some areas featuring an average of over 100 meters of hedge per hectare.
  

You miss the point that there is a game effect the designer wants these to make.  He has ruled that they will be 20 meters tall.

And having been to Normandy many times, I understand what the intent is.

The LOS and height of terrain are a compromise of many things and they make what could be a complicated set of rules into rules that are easy and give a "good enough" effect what elevations do.

[plloyd1010]

I don't think I missed anything.

I didn't design those rules or the games that include them. The bocage walls themselves are not anything close to 20 meters high. But that's not the same as their game effect.


Digging out Knipple's original draft, it's written to imply that your 20-meter suggestion was the intent (the game design pre-dates the current rules mechanism). Go with that.

What does written to imply mean? Especially after 25 years when Brian did not have hedgerows at 20 meters in the first game he made with hedgerows.

Maybe the game shouldn't reflect reality to the best of it's constraints?

[Blackcloud6]

Looking at the rules today for another case, I reread this:

8.32 Terrain that Blocks LOSThe TEC specifies which terrain features are tall enough to block LOS due to vegetation, buildings or other obstructions for a spotter and target on the same level. For game LOS purposes, they are assumed to be 20 meters in elevation in addition to the elevation of the land upon which they sit.

So, there is no question that the hedges/bocage etc. are 20 meters tall for game purposes.  Since hey block LOS beyond the hex, they are 20 meters tall.  Railroad embankments are the same.

[Reconquista]

And . . . I think that the bocage rules included in the Invasion 1944 game set are even more restrictive than the standard PG hedgerow rules. See Invasion 1944, scenario book, Advanced Rules No. 15. Terrain on page 8.

[joe_oppenheimer]

Yes, Invasion 1944 has its own special rules for hedges and they are especially restrictive.

[joe_oppenheimer]

Yes, Invasion 1944 has its own special rules for bocage and they are especially restrictive.

[treadasaurusrex]

Yes, Invasion 1944 has its own special rules for hedges and they are especially restrictive.

Yep, my last, rather whiny, AAR report was based on a play-through of an the Invasion 1944 scenario that features those doggone bocage "Advanced Rules," which means that virtually, the ONLY combat possible in that scenario is in close assaults.

These are subject to Blackcloud06's, now famous, PG-HQ Forum lamentation about the tedium associated with seemingly endless, close assault die rolling contests.

[Blackcloud6]

Blackcloud06's, now famous, PG-HQ Forum lamentation

lol