05-22-2013, 08:46 AM,
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2013, 08:47 AM by Michael Murphy.)
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RE: [Fog of War] - Large Scenarios
All I'm suggesting is the addition of additional pre-FOW activations based on the total number of units in play. Both sides play the same number of activations; 3 for up to 149 units, 4 for 150 to 199 units, 5 for 200 to 249 units, etc. Initiative has no bearing on this calculation whatsoever. The whole point is simply to provide sufficient activations to move the increased number of units before beginning the normal FOW process.
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05-22-2013, 12:04 PM,
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plloyd1010
First Sergeant
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Posts: 3,474
Threads: 353
Joined: Jun 2012
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RE: [Fog of War] - Large Scenarios
How about these, possibly over complicated, ideas? - A sliding FoW modifier: Start with a modifier, like -1 for every 50 units over 50-75. Every x (8 or 10?) activation rounds add 1 to the dice roll. Max modifier of +1, natural 18 always ends the turn. Might be the simplest. Problem is we tend to lose track of activation rounds.
- A modifier based on the number of enemy units. -1 for every 25 units your opponent has over 25-30. This may give an advantage to the smaller/losing side. Smooths the overall chances, would end more often after the larger side's activation. Also makes recombining a bit of a strategic question.
- Have FoW cancellations: Each side may cancel a FoW result a specified number of times. Perhaps 1 for every 50 units over 50 in the game. Either side may cancel a FoW roll, but inactive player gets first dibs. Cancellations available reset, perhaps every 3-6 tuns. Could make for some bluffing. Would you ant to cancel? Would you try to maneuver you opponent into canceling?
... More and more, people around the world are coming to realize that the world is flat!
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05-22-2013, 12:44 PM,
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campsawyer
First Lieutenant
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Posts: 1,023
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Joined: May 2012
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RE: [Fog of War] - Large Scenarios
I will be honest, I am not seeing the need for a change. FoW is suppose to be a variable to the length of the turn. It is an optional rule and if you think it doesn't work for large scenarios, don't use it. It seems by the postings everyone wants to use it but does not want to be burned by it, but that is not what it is suppose to be. It is a fate and it will hit you at anytime which sounds like real life to me. With more units to more there is a good chance that they won't activate, but that is reality of trying to move large groups, they never do what you want them to do.
I think a better use of though is how can strategies be developed to overcome this, not change the rules. After playing a few large games these are some of the ideas to help minimize the activations of unit and but get the most out of the units. First, small key groups of units. Never have more units strung out that require for that 2-3 activations to move together. Use leader chaining to the maximum to accomplish this as well as don't let the units get out of command. Second, realize some units will not move. Find a position that they can do the maximum amount of work for the there capabilities. The lowly German 75mm IG is a good example. Given its firepower it is not going to do much damage, but it's range is useful to push demoralized units out of the way. Third, don't worry about rallying all units. With large games there will be plenty of reserves. Let these guys sit as long as they are safely out of range. If you do some of these ideas you can cut the amount of activations per turn and hence reduce the chances of FoW and still get enough units moving to win. Is this guaranteed, no, but that is FoW.
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05-22-2013, 08:42 PM,
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campsawyer
First Lieutenant
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Posts: 1,023
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Joined: May 2012
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RE: [Fog of War] - Large Scenarios
I do understand the statistical numbers for large and small scenario's, but it is my belief that FoW is suppose to be a cruel fate rather than a statistical normal. I fully understand that statistically defenders in large scenarios benefit a little more than attackers as well as FoW may not be relevant in small ones, but rather than try to smooth the curve, just don't use FoW in those situations if you feel it is too overwhelming to the scenario. Several years ago I had played the last scenario, the last on in Aachen. As usual I used FoW and the battle was severally limited by FoW. The average for the FoW was 10 activations. The Germans barely could get there troops moving, but I keep them going and surprisingly the did make it interesting but in the end did lose. I went back and played it a second time this time without FoW. The result was still an American win, but now the Germans could launch more assaults and get troops into battle, but the dice still had a cruel fate for the Germans and they still lost. Point being fate still rules in the game and FoW adds more of it.
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05-22-2013, 09:56 PM,
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plloyd1010
First Sergeant
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Posts: 3,474
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Joined: Jun 2012
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RE: [Fog of War] - Large Scenarios
Well Dan, at least we are getting similar results. I've worked the successive probability to 50%, then added 3 to the number of iterations, but I cheated and used the Windows calculator to do it. I think I had hit the enter key 12 times when the number had dropped to 50.9%. The formula I've been using is probability = (1-chance) ^ # iterations, stop at approximately 50%.
For us, we don't use FoW in large scenarios. As PG seems to be designed for a regimental sized fight, we consider large as bigger than that. A squishy definition, I know.
... More and more, people around the world are coming to realize that the world is flat!
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