light woods and LOS

[t1M0t8yk]

  I have questions about the LOS rules for light woods.  Is my understanding of the following correct?

1)  For units at the same elevation two light woods always block LOS; i.e., the light woods hexes need not be adjacent.

2)  For units at different elevations two light woods block LOS only if they are both at the same or higher elevation as the higher unit.

Please advise if there are other considerations that I have perhaps not perceived regarding light woods and LOS.

[Hugmenot]

  I have questions about the LOS rules for light woods.  Is my understanding of the following correct?

1)  For units at the same elevation two light woods always block LOS; i.e., the light woods hexes need not be adjacent.

2)  For units at different elevations two light woods block LOS only if they are both at the same or higher elevation as the higher unit.

 Please advise if there are other considerations that I have perhaps not perceived regarding light woods and LOS.

1) Correct.

2) Correct if there are two Light Woods hexes are at a higher elevation at the higher unit. I have my own interpretation as to to the other three cases (same-same, same-higher, higher-same) but give me a few days to reach out to the guy who wrote the rules to see if it matches his intent. I treat the second Light Woods as Blocking Terrain in these cases and apply the relevant case.

And someday I will even add illustrated examples of play... but not until the Holidays at the earliest.

[t1M0t8yk]

  Thanks.  I used a different interpretation last time it was a consideration, but my thinking is different now.

  I think my interpretation of the second question is both easier and intuitive.  Hopefully the rules author agrees.  I think the cumulative effect of two light woods hexes to block LOS can only occur when they are at the same level as the higher unit.

  The only exception I can think of is if you're looking straight down a slope; i.e., level four unit looks down through light woods immediately adjacent at level three and more light woods again immediately adjacent at level two cannot see units immediately adjacent at level one, three hexes away and three levels below.

[t1M0t8yk]

  Thanks.  I used a different interpretation last time it was a consideration, but my thinking is different now.

  I think my interpretation of the second question is both easier and intuitive.  Hopefully the rules author agrees.  I think the cumulative effect of two light woods hexes to block LOS can only occur when they are at the same level as the higher unit.

  The only exception I can think of is if you're looking straight down a slope; i.e., level four unit looks down through light woods immediately adjacent at level three and more light woods again immediately adjacent at level two cannot see units immediately adjacent at level one, three hexes away and three levels below.

  Upon further reflection, I thought of two other exceptions that may apply for units separated by one level of elevation.  Note though how much more complicated things get.

1)  If both light woods are at the lower elevation they block LOS if both hexes are closer (neither equidistant) to the lower unit.

2)  If one light wood is at the higher elevation and one is at the lower elevation, the lower light woods blocks LOS if it is closer (not equidistant) to the lower unit.

  C'mon PG-HQ community, your input would be greatly appreciated.  My setup for an Elsenborn Ridge scenario depends on the answer.  If the answer is trivial please speak up.  Perhaps this has already been discussed and I didn't find it.  If the answer is not trivial this question should be generating more discussion.  Elsenborn Ridge is one of PG's most popular modules, and this question should crop up often for those using it.

P.S.  For now I'm not going to the cases where units are separated by more than one level of elevation.  We can consider those later if necessary.

[Hugmenot]

First, let me define the terms I used to ensure we're discussing the same cases.

Assume the higher unit is on a 40m hill hex.
A light woods hex on a 40m hill hex is at a HIGHER elevation as the higher unit (40m for the hill + 20m for the light woods = 60m).
A light woods hex on a 20m hill hex is at the SAME elevation as the higher unit.
A light woods hex on a ground level hex is at a LOWER elevation as the higher unit.

In your case (1), both light woods hexes being at a LOWER elevation than the higher unit does NOT block line of sight as 8.42 does not list any limiting terrain at lower elevation than the higher unit blocking line of sight. The line-of-sight would not be blocked even if the hexes were woods, heavy woods, towns instead of light woods.

As 8.42 does not list any terrain at lower elevation than the higher unit blocking line-of-sight, I ignore all terrain at lower elevation than the higher unit when determining if the line-of-sight is blocked. Your (2) thus become a single light woods hex at a higher elevation than the higher unit. There are only two cases if the higher unit is on a 40m hill hex: (2) the light woods is on a 40m hill hex in which case the line-of-sight is not blocked, and (2) the light woods is on a level 60m hill hex or above in which case the line-of-sight is blocked by the elevation line.

Personally, I would have added the concept of blind hexes if I had written the line-of-sight rules but I am not sure the extra complexity would be worth it.

[t1M0t8yk]

  Thanks, Hugmenot.  Let me restate to be consistent with the nomenclature you are using.  The following three cases are considered for units separated by 20 m in elevation.

1)  Two light woods block LOS if they are both at a higher elevation as the higher unit.

2)  If both light woods are at the same elevation as the higher unit they block LOS if both hexes are closer (neither equidistant) to the lower unit.

3)  If one light wood is higher than the high unit and one is at same elevation, the lower light woods blocks LOS if it is closer (not equidistant) to the lower unit.

Case 1 has been clear all along. I'm starting to see the logic of case 3. Case 2 is not clear, and I'd like to know the rules writer's intent.

[leonard]

  I have questions about the LOS rules for light woods.  Is my understanding of the following correct?

1)  For units at the same elevation two light woods always block LOS; i.e., the light woods hexes need not be adjacent.

2)  For units at different elevations two light woods block LOS only if they are both at the same or higher elevation as the higher unit.

 Please advise if there are other considerations that I have perhaps not perceived regarding light woods and LOS.

My two cents... This could become really difficult if you start treating Light woods, that give a hindrance, like normal woods that create shadow.

So, my answers to your questions would be :
1) Correct
2) Light woods hindrance is considered only if the light woods features grow on the same level as the higher unit.

Of course (2) is not realistic but it is easy to play with.

[t1M0t8yk]

  I have questions about the LOS rules for light woods.  Is my understanding of the following correct?

1)  For units at the same elevation two light woods always block LOS; i.e., the light woods hexes need not be adjacent.

2)  For units at different elevations two light woods block LOS only if they are both at the same or higher elevation as the higher unit.

 Please advise if there are other considerations that I have perhaps not perceived regarding light woods and LOS.

My two cents... This could become really difficult if you start treating Light woods, that give a hindrance, like normal woods that create shadow.

So, my answers to your questions would be :
1) Correct
2) Light woods hindrance is considered only if the light woods features grow on the same level as the higher unit.

Of course (2) is not realistic but it is easy to play with.

  Thanks, Leonard.  I agree that point 2 is easier to apply, but this interpretation is inconsistent with the following thread I found:

http://www.pg-hq.com/comms/showthread.ph...ight+woods

  Based on this thread, 2) becomes:

  "For units at different elevations, two light woods may block LOS only if they both grow at the same or one level lower than the higher unit."  Note also if the light woods closer to the lower unit grows at one level lower it must be closer (not equidistant) to the lower unit.

P.S.  I like your wording.  "Woods grow at..." avoids some confusion I had with the nomenclature Hugmenot uses.

[richvalle]

Hugmenot, did you ever get clarification on the light woods?

Thanks,

rv

[Hugmenot]

No, I worked on to PG products this past weekend and that was about all I could handle.