Managed to early order this title, which is now announced on the AVP website, so discussion is no longer a gold club secret. From the description of the game is sounds like it focuses more on the British Normandy campaign than the pursuit, covering Epson, Goodwood, and Bluecoat, the first two of which are already portrayed in Beyond Normandy with historical, not generic maps. This set through Bluecoat carries the allies forward to the beginning? of the Falaise Pocket. This may be looked at as the redesign of an early game that had infamous line of sight and hedgerow problems. Lots more Brits of course, but who plays with Brits (Larry ducks for the incoming volley) :-}
The more PG boxed games the better (more scenarios for us, higher profit margin for AVP, provided they sell). Many additional boxed games schedualed for your gaming table this year, including the most asked for followup game in many years.
(05-09-2013, 12:24 AM)larry marak Wrote: [ -> ]Managed to early order this title, which is now announced on the AVP website, so discussion is no longer a gold club secret. From the description of the game is sounds like it focuses more on the British Normandy campaign than the pursuit, covering Epson, Goodwood, and Bluecoat, the first two of which are already portrayed in Beyond Normandy with historical, not generic maps. This set through Bluecoat carries the allies forward to the beginning? of the Falaise Pocket. This may be looked at as the redesign of an early game that had infamous line of sight and hedgerow problems. Lots more Brits of course, but who plays with Brits (Larry ducks for the incoming volley) :-}
The more PG boxed games the better (more scenarios for us, higher profit margin for AVP, provided they sell). Many additional boxed games schedualed for your gaming table this year, including the most asked for followup game in many years.
As a newcomer it's hard to envisage the most asked for follow up game.
I wonder if Lib '44 means I will not need to order BN then?
Thanks for the info Larry - from a friendly Brit
(05-09-2013, 02:20 AM)petergarnett Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder if Lib '44 means I will not need to order BN then?
Well Peter, you don't "need" to order anything. That said and having read the AP page, I do have some opinions you may find useful.
Firstly, Mike Perryman is a very good designer. That at least should make the scenario book interesting. His previous scenarios have been fairly balanced and usually fun to play.
Next is about the maps. BN maps are rather primitive compared to the other games. I myself was confused for a couple minutes when it came to roads. So graphically, the Lib'44 maps should be better. On the other hand, clarity has not been a priority in map design.
Lastly counters, they appear to be reincarnations of the BN set, but fewer of them. Not counting the markers, there will be 2 sheets. BN had 2 & ½.
Lib'44 will be the prettier game. If you are just starting, I might buy one game (probably BN), but not both.
I agree, Lib'44 should be a cleaner, much less confusing product than Beyond Normandy.
On the otherhand BN, with its map interpretation problems, is sort of an advanced PG campaign game. Higher command structures are involved. And it also has the advantage of being heavily used in the King's Officers supplement (which will be disappearing from the line-up along with the Eastern front book fairly soon). Word to the wise.
( I originally typed word to the wide, but my advice is for all gamers, not just obese ones like me)
Peter,
Liberation '44 is a standalone game and you will not need any other game to play all of its scenarios. I would purchase it over Beyond Normandy for four reasons:
1. Mike Perryman is a very good scenario designer.
2. The recent designs, not just Mike's, generally include more interesting victory conditions than earlier designs.
3. Geomorphic maps. The Liberation '44 maps will be added to the pool of available maps designers use when creating new scenarios. In other words, these maps will likely be used again in future scenarios
4. The Beyond Normandy counters, or at least mine, are the thinnest in the series. I find them a little harder to manipulate than the thicker counters included in Saipan or Workers and Peasant for example.
And like Peter recommended above, I would just start with one game.
Ya know? A Lib'44 upgrade kit would be nice. Something like $40 with the book & maps. Those of us with BN probably already have the counters.
Without being too specific the counters are not a rehash of Beyond Normandy's scaled down. Their are a variety of new unit types on both sides. The 21st Panzer Division with its exotic vehicle types is well represented. Thanks, Mike
Oh heck Peter buy both !
I have BN but will not miss out on a Mike Perryman contribution either. From the tidbits out there that a few flappy tongues have let loose, there is room for both in the collection and a few pieces and troops that are not in BN.
My reason to have both ?
MP designs L44 = Buy it !
The 3 BN scenarios I have played have all been fun and if you want proof, I'm down the road mate for a 4th BN experience.
So no negatives either way. Not only that, you're on the same island as me so we owe it to 'Our Boys' to buy box-sets of their endeavours. Next up on the Brit front... Burma eh ? (wink wink nudge nudge say no more squire !)
I am really looking forward to this game! I bet, I get thicker British counters this time.
