PG-HQ Forums

Panzer Grenadier, how do you play it?

I ask in all seriousness!

I prefer (though don't often play) the 4 to 6 geomorphic map scenarios, with lots of counters, but it's a complicated relationship...

...part of me loves having a huge variety of units and leaders and lots of terrain to move in...

...but part of me recoils at the thought of trying to put together a coherent battle plan! (typically I'll sort out everything I need into stacks of INF, HMGs, LTs, etc. and then just space out for half an hour trying to mentally contort those towers into functioning battle groups)

When I DO play these med-large scenarios, I play very slowly... and intermittently. Even though I am having a good time, I find myself getting mentally restless after 90 minutes or 2 hours and need to stop and take a break.

Mind you this is all solo, face-to-face would probably be very different!

I try to never abandon scenarios before they run their full course, unless it's a situation where the attacker has melted away in front of well-manned defenses. This is more due to making bold and ultimately erroneous predictions midway through my own battles in the past ... I've learned not to trust my own judgment!

I do enjoy a drink at the table, typically black coffee.

I have a butt-ugly cardboard dice tower I made in a fit of boredom some years back that I use for 2d6 rolls.

I think tile spacers instead of moved/fired markers is just brilliant.

I've got one double sheet set of clipped markers that I use with all my games. All the other marker sheets remain unpunched.

I don't sub-fold my large paper maps, even if it's a scenario only occupying a few square centimeters of area.

I have used plastic sheets over the maps in the past, but mine are so scratched up now they're almost opaque and should be replaced.

I most enjoy playing in the mornings after having gotten up and made a pot of coffee... playing late at night is less satisfying, perhaps because my wits aren't quite so sharp.

The mismatched map art doesn't bother me, counter mistakes are amusing, but typos in the scenario books annoy the shit out of me for some reason.

My PG dream is to play one of the mega-campaigns, perhaps Cassino, face-to-face with someone of equal or slightly better competence.

Lastly, I cherish the time I've shared (and will continue to share!) with all of you

Cool post (like the introduce yourself thread) and the type I like to read as well as participate in.

Taking each of your points in succession, and then maybe some of my own at the end, here goes :

For ftf games, I prefer big battles. Ones with lots of troops, time and space. These to me give the feeling of controlling a brigade and higher formations. For Skype, 1-3 boards are best, but 4 boards are sufferable. For some reason (for me), I haven't tried much larger on skype yet ?

For all games, small, medium or large i start by laying the boards out and assimilating what the VC's are for that battle. Is it VP's for losses and terrain ? If so, what makes for the best defence given the numbers when crunched down. Am I forced to defend (or attack everything), can I get away with a single point of attack and defence and still win ? What routes offer speed, safe passage and of course, scenario relevant passage for victory. On completing that initial 'walk-through', then I formulate an overrall plan for the game, be it my attack routes and targets or where my troops will stand and defend (and counter-attack).

Its then time to get the troops ready. If defending, I'll do a set-up pre-game, often chopping and changing locations of deployment and trying to analyse the likely course of battle. If I am attacking and entering the board, then I am obviously at the mercy of the defender as to entry points BUT that also comes with tjhe caveat of what the general plan is anyway.

Interestingly, I also take into account opponents that I will be playing. Some of them (like me of course too), have PG playing doctrines of their own. Taking those into account can mean a slight differentation in deployment against one player that I might use for another player ?

Most of my sessions of gaming range from 5-8 hours, but I tend to get 1 session in a week, sometimes two. Being to all intents and purposes just a 'opponent' player, I am of course at the mercy of other peoples availability, but there is a useful small hardcore of us involved.

Your comment about allowing scenarios to run a full course hit a note. In the past couple of months, I found myself getting too wrapped up in 'not messing up', and when things appeared impossible, I threw in the towel on two scenarios far too early ! I'd forgotten about enjoying the 'imagine whats going on' that this game is representing and therefore some of the fun. From that point on, I told my fellow players that I made a 'self-oath' that no matter what the situation is I will always play 75% of any scenarios turn total. Only if an opponent jacked it in earlier will I default from that

All drinks are open for consumption at my table. However, if on the beer, 3 pints is max as I don't want my decision making being affected

Have a nice wooden dice-tower (gravedigger games) and I prefer mini-dice rather than great lumps for dice. I like the way these spin and rotate more as opposed to the one or two revolutions a large dice might make. Silly I guess, but we all develop preferences in our gaming habits. No problems on skype though. The hamete dice roller serves all !

Ignorant I know, but I don't get the tile spacers thing at all ? I just use blue (axis) and red (allied) moved fired markers.

Have some nice plexiglass to use over the maps. I do like the feel of the these things as a game base and also the way the maps are looked after whilst being played on under them. It was another player I played PG against that introduced me to these.

Against Yanks (real-life ones, not olive coloured counters), I have to play from midday onwards to late at night. When ftf'ing an Englishman, we tend to play at 9am-5pm.

I still have a few people 'targets' on my list to play. The 3 Belgians, Filip, Peter D and Philippe so I'm gonna have to take a visit to via the Eurostar train when and if they'll have me. Some of the UK residents shown on PG-HQ that have been too shy to come out of the woodwork, and also try to get a game with Dave Murray. On skype, I'm after getting a game going with Hugmenot, but I'd also like to clash with Blackcloud and Matt W as well. My ultimate PG goal would be to incorporate a PG tour on my next trip to the US and visit Alan Sawyer, Tony Langston, Mike Perryman and John Legen as a MINIMUM. The other guy I need to game with on Skype is YOU you idiot when you finally find a spare 5 or 6 hours.

At present, I am still quite unable to purposefully play solo. I've now tried a total of 3 scenarios in such mode and still have not taken to it. I envy those that can as they are able to play as much as they may wish.

(10-19-2012, 10:29 PM)vince hughes Wrote: [ -> ]Ignorant I know, but I don't get the tile spacers thing at all ? I just use blue (axis) and red (allied) moved fired markers.

I like being able to see the counter artwork at all times. That's really the reason for me.

Quote:The other guy I need to game with on Skype is YOU you idiot when you finally find a spare 5 or 6 hours.

I laughed out loud at this. I wanna play the other Alaska's War scenarios with you... but live via VoIP, not interminable PBEM!

Well, I will toss in a post to this thread.

As for my play, I started with solo and FtF many years ago, but many of the FtF players dropped off and I was reduced to solo. Within the last three years, yes Vince we have been Skype'ing for 3 years, my play in PG has picked up with play by Skype. I believe both complement each other, playing solo helps work out tactics and playing via Skype helps prove or disprove them.

As for the layout, I have a rebuilt enclosed porch that allows me to setup games and play, but the size of the table limits me to 4 board or 1 AK/DR map. I have a smaller table to hold the status counters charts other games etc. With this space, I am usually able to get good light during the day and in warmer weather open the doors and windows, to which some of my night time Skype opponents have commented on hearing the crickets.

As for the Skype games, I find myself playing more of these type of games rather than solo. Why? Time. I find it harder for me to setup and continue a game before something comes up and I have to break it down. As for the plays, I have very many and very good opponents. Credits go to Vince for being the longest continual player, Wayne for my current Fall of France opponent, a tie with Shad and ArmyDuck for the farthest players, Hugmenot for having his son wipe out a platoon of infantry and Tony Langston for being my newest Skype player. I have also played the PG King UpintheAttic, who is truely a ringer for the game.

Back to my plays, I use some homemade charts for time/status. I use the blue/red move fires, I use the white on red/black and the red/black on white for status of both sides. For dice, no towers for me, but the nice thud of dice green velvet on a homemade dice tray. For dice, 2 sets, one for each side and the 3 for FoW, which is not optional for me. I also have some counters with just the unit emblem on it for status, hidden units, control etc.

I also use the OBA counters with a major upgrade, I use both sides. One side has the explosion and another that has a shell. This helps me place the fire on the units on the board as well as flip them over to show they have fired or not.

Another plus for Skype, I can setup the board as I like. I tend to "spread" units around in a hex, which FtF is impossible and messy. But I can manage them without loosing their position and is far better than a massive counter tower falling over.

As for food and beverage, many have heard me munching breakfast or dinner during our games. The second table also helps this.

For map plexiglass is a must. I hate the "waves" that the folds in the maps create. It is also easier to maneuver the counters too.

Sorry to cut this off but I have to go, I will do more later. Just like my games they have to take a back set to life.

The quick answer is "any way I can"

But to the point. I play primarily solo but greatly enjoy my ftf time with Daniel.

I have two primary threads of games. 1-4 map scenarios with less than 30 turns can be done in a night if the counter density isn't too much (I played an 8 GMU game in Desert Rats last night with 30+ units and it went so fast that the size didn't matter). I have these for the breakfast table at night. Larger games tend to stay set up for an extended period in a separate room that can be closed off from the dogs. Those may get played turn by turn until the battle truly develops at which point I will attempt to carry forward somewhat more diligently. I tend to mull over the larger ones longer in setup and strategy development. I love a rainy day off where I can play uninterrupted for 5 hrs or so, but they don't happen too often. Life often gets in the way.

Coffee or ice water is consumed while playing.

I haven't moved to plexiglass, not sure why.

Never fold under a map. When using a portion of the map I mark out the playing surface using spare disrupted markers (the red really stands out).

I have one set of markers that I have enhanced with extra disrupted/demoralized markers (love those Ecuadorians) but have noticed that they are experiencing some wear and may finally break down and punch another set in the near future (but I have plenty of unpunched marker sheets available).

I have unclipped counters and I roll dice by hand. None of this namby-pamby frilly stuff for me. This is a man's game!

I will leave a scenario before the end if one side has already obtained a victory and the opponent has no ability to counterattack, or I have brutally mismanaged a side. Recently I have been forcing myself to push on and have had one situation where an apparent German victory turned into a defeat through a "what the heck" charge by the Americans.

I have found a substantial difference in play between solo and ftf that has greatly enhanced my solo playing with respect to hidden units and surprises. Basically hidden units will be found in the normal process of a game. The key is to permit yourself to "stumble" into the hidden unit just as you would in a ftf game. It hurts but that is what it is there for. In general, I find that solo play tends to "rush" the scenario in comparison to ftf play. The ftf experience has made me a bit more concious of the need to take my time to acheive a goal rather than rush in and accept higher losses (unless, of course, I am playing the Soviets).

I'm looking at the three campaign games (Ivy, Lehr and Hell on Wheels) as well as some of the C&C campaigns as the next real push for my play. Those concepts are intriguing. The Cassino and Beyond Normandy campaigns are currently beyond my table space although that might change.

The HQ has changed PG from a dalliance to a passion and I can only express my gratitude to Andrew for his hard work on the site. I hope it is as rewarding to him as it is to me. This has greatly enhanced my play, not just from a technical standpoint but by helping to flesh out the experience of playing, and the storytelling that comes from it.

(10-19-2012, 10:53 PM)Shad Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-19-2012, 10:29 PM)vince hughes Wrote: [ -> ]Ignorant I know, but I don't get the tile spacers thing at all ? I just use blue (axis) and red (allied) moved fired markers.

I like being able to see the counter artwork at all times. That's really the reason for me.

Quote:The other guy I need to game with on Skype is YOU you idiot when you finally find a spare 5 or 6 hours.

I laughed out loud at this. I wanna play the other Alaska's War scenarios with you... but live via VoIP, not interminable PBEM!

Yes, I agree, so just a 5 or 6 hour window someday when you can find it abd I'll be VoiP ready !

And so to my own 'nuances'

First of all, and Wayne will laugh at this, but I like a neat board ! Counters, when face up should face the 'right way' for the player owning them. None at 90 degrees this way, 90 degrees that way or God forbid, 180 degrees around ... very ugly !

Not too worried about the Moved/Fired markers versus the tile spacing thing now that its been explained. I find the leader counters hide most of the unit artwork anyways ? I also, as the turn wears on, quite like seeing the delineating lines of forces as starkly shown by the blue v red MF markers.

When actually rolling dice in a ftf game, I like the dice to be shaken properly in the dice shaker before their descent into the dice tower. None of this 'putting' dice down it .... Never trust a player that does that LOL

I have one main PBEM opponent (John Legen in Ill). Now for most people, PBEM is too slow. But I view the PBEM side of gaming in a totally different way to other gaming. We basically do an AS a night each. In England, each night, years ago on the TV, there would be an 'adventure' series such as Dick Barton Special Agent. Each episode would only be about 5 minutes long and would run for weeks and weeks on end. These were generally shown at the end of the kids TV slot. It was just a little 'bite' every night. This is how I see the PBEM games. I come home from work, settle in and at some point, go to the games room to view the PBEM battlefield. Carry out his emailed move. Roll the hamete dice for any MC's and then send my move and dice rolls. Its my little piece of PG a day fix. Sometimes on the weekend, we might send 2 or 3 moves a day if either of us has the chance, but there is always one move. Its a nice diversion for me and over the past 4 years we have emailed I think 7 or 8 PG battles to each other. Our current is 'Slowing The Juggernaut' and has taken nearly a bloody year, but it is winding down now.

Oh yes, my main nuance of course is taking sides. Being somebody that enjoys statistics, once I played the first of our PG games as the Axis, I have always stuck with that. It has obviously made summing up and the assigning of results, losses etc much easier when glancing through 'scores' and lists etc. One of my favourite Axis nations is the Romanians. I have a 'fictional' journal running on their battles, supposedly penned by a travelling war correspondent. I have not played many Romanian battles lately other than my PBEM but would hope to fit more in soon. I have worked through their battles on EFD sequentially, and am looking forward to reaching the Odessa struggles.

Thats all I can think of really. More will come I suspect as and when new opponents come to light.

I have played a few monsters but what helps me play the larger ones, I don't use the move/fire counters, I just rotate my counters, I also take breaks and hardly ever play the larger one straight through. Also, I play more medium & smaller scenarios and only hit up a larger one ever 10 plays or so. That is what works for me.

Great thread,
How do I play? poorly some times, OK most of the time and with the very occasional flash of brilliance.
I play FtF, Skype and solo.
My main antagonists are Vince and Alan, but have also played captwoosey a few times now.
I like big, simple scenarios best, that's because I am a big simple man, however I will look at any scenario offered by my opponents and will really play anything PG wise.
I always try and get the boards out and look at set ups etc before playing and and formulate a plan however I am well aware that plans do not last after contact with the enemy so try and stay flexible throughout the game.
I don't like to eat while playing but enjoy, tea,coffer beer or wine depending on time while playing, often though that hot drink is often cold by the time I remember it there.
I hate Vince's dice. They are small, unreadable and obey his orders.
I can also confirm Vince likes a tidy battlefield I deliberately put my counters on sloppily just to try and wind him up. Hey he is a better player than me.
I love this game and my regret is I never have enough time to play PG and play more opponents . Though I have a few more opponents in my sights.

(10-20-2012, 01:59 AM)vince hughes Wrote: [ -> ]And so to my own 'nuances'

First of all, and Wayne will laugh at this, but I like a neat board ! Counters, when face up should face the 'right way' for the player owning them. None at 90 degrees this way, 90 degrees that way or God forbid, 180 degrees around ... very ugly !

Not too worried about the Moved/Fired markers versus the tile spacing thing now that its been explained. I find the leader counters hide most of the unit artwork anyways ? I also, as the turn wears on, quite like seeing the delineating lines of forces as starkly shown by the blue v red MF markers.

When actually rolling dice in a ftf game, I like the dice to be shaken properly in the dice shaker before their descent into the dice tower. None of this 'putting' dice down it .... Never trust a player that does that LOL

I have one main PBEM opponent (John Legen in Ill). Now for most people, PBEM is too slow. But I view the PBEM side of gaming in a totally different way to other gaming. We basically do an AS a night each. In England, each night, years ago on the TV, there would be an 'adventure' series such as Dick Barton Special Agent. Each episode would only be about 5 minutes long and would run for weeks and weeks on end. These were generally shown at the end of the kids TV slot. It was just a little 'bite' every night. This is how I see the PBEM games. I come home from work, settle in and at some point, go to the games room to view the PBEM battlefield. Carry out his emailed move. Roll the hamete dice for any MC's and then send my move and dice rolls. Its my little piece of PG a day fix. Sometimes on the weekend, we might send 2 or 3 moves a day if either of us has the chance, but there is always one move. Its a nice diversion for me and over the past 4 years we have emailed I think 7 or 8 PG battles to each other. Our current is 'Slowing The Juggernaut' and has taken nearly a bloody year, but it is winding down now.

Oh yes, my main nuance of course is taking sides. Being somebody that enjoys statistics, once I played the first of our PG games as the Axis, I have always stuck with that. It has obviously made summing up and the assigning of results, losses etc much easier when glancing through 'scores' and lists etc. One of my favourite Axis nations is the Romanians. I have a 'fictional' journal running on their battles, supposedly penned by a travelling war correspondent. I have not played many Romanian battles lately other than my PBEM but would hope to fit more in soon. I have worked through their battles on EFD sequentially, and am looking forward to reaching the Odessa struggles.

Thats all I can think of really. More will come I suspect as and when new opponents come to light.

When actually rolling dice in a ftf game, I like the dice to be shaken properly in the dice shaker before their descent into the dice tower. None of this 'putting' dice down it .... Never trust a player that does that LOL

And what a pain in the A... you are about it, why have a dice tower if you don't think it works you buffoon