1. The "rules lawyers" (I've already noted these).
2. The learning curve of Vassel (et al). (I'm NOT a PC wise guy!)
3. My health issues keep me from having a set time for "meeting engagements" via PC.
4. Does the "online" activities keep me from doing solo play(s) at the same time...... ?????
5. Sometimes I just "don't feel like it".
If anyone can come up with a compromise for some of the above, I would like to hear them. I really would like to get my ass beat by someone else besides myself. (.... and it would tend to demonstrate some of my mistakes and "errors of tactical judgement".)
GG
Re your #1:
I agree completely. At my age, at this point in my life, I just don't care to get bogged down like that. I play the games, and if I reach a point where the rules are not clear, I might ask a question here on this forum. But most of the time I just pick a course of action and move on.
Re your #2:
Yep, that's me also. I tried Vassel years ago and found it to be more trouble than it's worth. Many guys like it and find it to be a useful tool. More power to them. I'm generally pretty PC-savvy, but I spent 40+ years at work navigating PC stuff, attending work-related workshops on how to use this or that proprietary software. Now that I'm retired, I'm done with all that. These days I just don't feel like putting in the time.
Re your #3:
That does not apply to me specifically, but my wife...
Re your #4:
Doesn't apply to me, because I only do solo plays.
Re your #5:
Yep. Some days I feel like playing a turn or two, and sometimes I might not feel like returning to the game until next week. I'm extremely reluctant to commit myself to being online any particular day or time. When I was working I had to do that. I happy that I don't have to do that any more.
For me there's another reason: the kinds of creepy guys I encountered some 50 years ago when I first met wargamers face-to-face while in college. Guys who thought the Rhodesian Army was just the coolest, hippest fighting force on planet Earth, except possibly for the Waffen SS. They creeped me out, and that feeling has stayed with me to this day. I'm quite content to continue my study of military history by myself, and play these games, when I play them, sitting by myself in my living room, with a glass of wine nearby.
Everybody enjoys the hobby in their own way, and no way is more or less valid than any other way.
Whatever floats your boat is good. In my case, if I didn't play PG online, there would only be solo games. In this area, wargaming FTF is pretty rare. We are fortunate to have an active ASL group, but otherwise it's pretty much Warhammer, not my cup of tea. I like FTF or Vassal, a close equivalent, because I always learn something from playing a live opponent, and also can learn about any rules that I may have missed. As expressed above, I don't mess with rules lawyers either....they are not fun to play with. Whenever an issue can't be clarified to the satisfaction of both players, simply roll a die to decide, and move on. PG is a great game solo or multi-player, so it's all good
Those of us who play online, salute you both, and honor your choices and considered opinions.
However, here's a few thoughts regarding GG's list and Tony's comments.
RE:1) Persnickety, Rules Lawyers are just plain NO FUN to play with anytime - AGREED.
RE:2) I am very much of a Luddite, too. However, I learned to play PG much faster, without significant pain, nor inconvenience, and with substantially less effort taking the Vassal training offered by the skilled & thoughtful mentors at PG-HQ. In fact, there are a number of us that are willing to help individuals overcome the relatively few challenges that Vassal actually poses, once one gets used to the platform's quirks. Online, shared play is certainly not every individual's cup of tea, but giving it a whirl is worth the effort, IMHO. The chance to play with others is much more fun, than in SOLO mode, and opens up other learning opportunities. Most wargamers are lifelong learners, so there is nothing to lose by putting a toe in the water, and much to gain that is positive.
RE:3) My age & health condition also present challenges, but they are easily overcome by playing with those that may have similar issues, or are simply gracious & understanding. Online play is relatively quick and easy to schedule in 2-hour blocks at my convenience, now that I am retired. Those that I play have lives as well, so I play at their convenience. It's just not that hard to find convenient times, even if you play people on 3 continents like I do. The camaraderie and companionship that develops with those with similar interests in history, often makes the minor inconveniences of scheduling fall to insignificance.
RE:4) I find SOLO play to be boring and to have a remarkable sameness after playing a few scenarios with typical victory conditions. One may play online and also have a SOLO game going at the same time - both on Vassal - or one scenario on the table, and one online. There are no limits other than one's time and energy. I have 7 online games going at the moment with 7 polite and amiable opponents. It often takes many online sessions to get through a complete scenario - I have one going now that we started last August!
RE:5) It is rare, but sometimes I don't feel like playing PG as well. If an online session is already scheduled, it is a simple matter of contacting your opponent and politely rescheduling the match.
For what it's worth, I hope that this screed is helpful and provides a little insight into why online, shared play, with a live & clever opponent may be a fun, fulfilling and inevitably interesting way to pass the time.
Now that's enlightening! Next question: How does one get "ready" to play online? I keep getting the feeling that the "Vassel" bit is hard to learn and frankly I really don't feel like "screwing" my PC up with a lot of add ons and extra "stuff". If I am going to do this, I need someone to run it through to me step by step because I am not very computer savvy at all.
GG
Vassal isn't very difficult. Felipe is using it, and on a Mac. You will need the Vassal engine, the PG Über base module and the extensions to support the scenario you might be playing. Being able to talk directly with your opponent is useful too. I use Skype, but any VoIP app, or even a cell phone will work.
Here is post for our newest Vassal player a couple weeks ago:
Quote:Now you download stuff for playing PG. The system works on a base module called PG Über. PG Über uses several extensions to build a game.
First make a folder for keeping your Vassal modules. Then go to the Vassal Players Hub from the PG-HQ main page. There you will find the Vassal Data Files link. At the top of that page, you will see the Panzer Grenadier Über Base Module with a download link. Download the Panzer Grenadier Über Base Module into your Vassal module directory.
Also you will see some documentation links and and common extensions, mines and game charts in particular. Definitely download the minefield extension. It can be saved anywhere, just don't forget where, you are going to need it in a moment. The User's Guide and Counter Reference would be useful too. Those are regular PDF files. The user's guide has everything that I will be saying from here on.
Open Vassal. Click File, at the top, select Open Module from the drop-down menu. Now use the navigation window to go to where you saved the PG Über Base Module and select it. After it opens, close it. (Yeah, I know.) PG Über will now be in your games list. Right click on the entry, select Add Extension from the drop-down menu. Navigate to where you saved the minefield extension and select it. Vassal will create a sub-directory with the PG Über Base Module and put the minefields in there.
You can add more extensions to the PG Über extension directory. They will load when you open PG Über. So you may get a game package, preferably for a game you or your opponent already own. You can unzip the game package directly into your extensions directory Run PG Über and you have your game.
There are some stand alone game extensions. And if you are just fiddling with PG Über, there is the Mentoring extension.
Have fun.
If you want help getting started, just about any us would be willing to help you get started.
(01-26-2024, 10:50 PM)Grognard Gunny Wrote: [ -> ]Now that's enlightening! Next question: How does one get "ready" to play online? I keep getting the feeling that the "Vassel" bit is hard to learn and frankly I really don't feel like "screwing" my PC up with a lot of add ons and extra "stuff". If I am going to do this, I need someone to run it through to me step by step because I am not very computer savvy at all.
GG
Happy to show you how, Brother! Thou I readily yield this honor to Peter Lloyd or Bob Piepho - the kings of Vassal Mentoring - if you'd prefer to deal with those with much more online experience that I have
I also know that the Treadasaurus, Miguelibal, Sagunto, or goosebrown would likely be happy to help orient you as well.
Goosebrown already signed on to give me a hand (around eight months ago or so), but.... I'll take on anyone with advise and "learnin' stuff"! My first bit is to ask how to get the basics on my PC.... I looked at the basic stuff in the forums here but have NO idea as to how to get them into my PC. I have an idea as to how to get it on my PC.... but how do I get it into a seperate (holding area?) (File?) in my PC. (I really am a dunce on some of the basics of PC usage.)
GG
Hell, I haven't even gotten to the point where I can group my favorites together as of yet.
GG
When you are ready to begin, please use this link in your browser to get you the download for Skype, so that we may communicate online for free:
https://www.skype.com/en/get-skype/downl...r-desktop/
If you would like some help with this step, I am in the player finder and feel free to contact me direct via email.