Rule 13.14 (4th edition) states that moving units failing MC in OP fire must stop. The rule does not mention leaders. Thus:
1) A leader moving alone is not stopped by a failed MC.
2) If the unit is accompanied by a leader, the leader fails its MC but the unit passes it, they can continue moving together.
3) If the unit is accompanied by a leader, the unit fails its MC and stops, the leader can continue moving (irrespective of its MC check result).
Are 1,2 and 3 above correct? They do not make a lot of sense to me. For consistency and simplicity, I would have preferred that rule 13.14 also mentioned leaders. But it does not. Did I miss something?
I believe leaders are stopped by moral checks. That is certainly I have always played it. That means the conclusions you have are not correct.
(08-21-2020, 10:37 PM)plloyd1010 Wrote: [ -> ]I believe leaders are stopped by moral checks. That is certainly I have always played it. That means the conclusions you have are not correct.
Thank you for your answer. So essentially you believe that they simply forgot to include leaders in 13.14? Or is somewhere else IN THE RULES mentioned that leaders are stopped by failed morale checks in OP fire?
I think it was more of an unconscious omission.
Combat Units: Units possessing a direct fire, bombardment fire or anti-tank fire value. Unarmed transports and leaders are not combat units.
Leaders: Individuals who activate and direct other units. Each leader piece has two sides, each of which represents a different leader. Each leader's rank, morale, combat bonus and morale bonus are on his playing piece. See 6.0 for leader specifics including movement allowance.
2.1 Playing PiecesMost of the playing pieces represent military units that took part in actions covered by the game series. Others are markers which represent fortifications, smoke and minefields, indicate morale status, or show that units have moved or fired this turn.
The 3rd edition of the rules stated:
Personnel Unit: Motorcycles, mortars, anti-tank rifles (ATRs), and all units which are not vehicles, weapons or leaders are Personnel Units. Examples include (but are not limited to) INF, MAR, PARA, CAV and ENG.
Are leaders units? This question is not specifically addressed in the 3rd and 4th editions of the rules.
Rewriting the rules to clearly indicate how rules specific non-marker chits - units (however that is defined), combat units, leaders, transport units, transport units that are not combat units, vehicles, AFVs, etc - will take some serious effort.
13.13 has your answer: "Leaders moving with the unit are affected normally along with the unit by any results."
One observation I think is correct that I'd like confirmed.....
Transports are NOT personnel units...
Thus, for OP fire, a loaded transport does NOT suffer the +1 column shift if fired upon by a DF weapon.
I think that is right..... thoughts?
(08-21-2020, 11:52 PM)Blackcloud6 Wrote: [ -> ]13.13 has your answer: "Leaders moving with the unit are affected normally along with the unit by any results."
Yes, thank you for pointing this out. My reading of this sentence was that any result from the direct fire or bombardment table also affected the moving leader, that is, in practice, that also the leader must check for morale.
The extension of this prescription to 3.14 is not super clear to me. Should it be intended that if a leader and a unit are moving together and one of them fails a MC, both units are stopped? If this is the case, it would imply that if a platoon has to dash across a street, it's better doing it alone (one MC) than with a leader (two MC)... which seems a bit counterintuitive...
(08-22-2020, 01:40 AM)g1ul10 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-21-2020, 11:52 PM)Blackcloud6 Wrote: [ -> ]13.13 has your answer: "Leaders moving with the unit are affected normally along with the unit by any results."
Yes, thank you for pointing this out. My reading of this sentence was that any result from the direct fire or bombardment table also affected the moving leader, that is, in practice, that also the leader must check for morale.
The extension of this prescription to 3.14 is not super clear to me. Should it be intended that if a leader and a unit are moving together and one of them fails a MC, both units are stopped? If this is the case, it would imply that if a platoon has to dash across a street, it's better doing it alone (one MC) than with a leader (two MC)... which seems a bit counterintuitive...
If a leader and a unit are running in the open, and are hit by OP fire....if EITHER unit fails MC (disrupt or dem) IT is halted...it has no impact on the other "unit" in the hex.
The leader failing does not stop the combat unit...and the combat unit failing does not necessarily stop the leader.....he could continue on if he choose...