4th edition hidden rules and artillery recon

[Hugmenot]

I pasted 16.6 from 3rd edition rules below. Can you point to me where it states the hidden unit is revealed if an artillery fire? I can't see that rule in section 9 Bombardment either.

Is it possible you base your opinion on the last sentence of 16.6? I interpret that paragraph as: "A hidden unit loses its special status and must be placed on the board if an enemy unit is able to spot it, or if it [the hidden unit] moves or [the hidden unit] conducts any type of fire.


The official rule:

16.6 Hidden Units.
In some scenarios, units begin play hidden. Some scenario books have special rules regarding hidden units. Barring any such special rules, the rules in this section govern hidden units.

Players write down the location of hidden units rather than placing them on the board. Spotting range for enemy units trying to locate hidden units is reduced to 1/4 normal range (minimum of 1 hex). Thus a hidden unit in clear terrain in daylight could only be spotted by a unit 3 or fewer hexes away, and a hidden unit in a town hex could only be spotted by an adjacent unit.

A hidden unit loses its special status and must be placed on the board if an enemy unit is able to spot it, or if it moves or conducts any type of fire.

[larry marak]

sure: a hidden unit loses its special status and must be placed on the board if......an enemy unit...conducts any type of fire.

[larry marak]

Now I'm assuming that a negative effect is known to the bombarder, and thus the hidden unit is revealed. Hence recon by fire. I could be mistaken of course.

[Hugmenot]

sure: a hidden unit loses its special status and must be placed on the board if......an enemy unit...conducts any type of fire.

In my opinion, the "...conducts any type of fire..." refers to the hidden unit. My comments in brackets.

"A hidden unit loses its special status and must be placed on the board if an enemy unit is able to spot it, or if it [the hidden unit] moves or [the hidden unit] conducts any type of fire.

[Matt W]

But the rule doesn't say if an enemy unit conducts fire, merely if "it" conducts fire.

[larry marak]

I see what you mean, though I was refering to reconaisance by fire, where the unit would be (?) reconnoitered by blasting away at a suspected location. If you see a secondary explosion, or men breaking cover and running away through you recon binoculars, then you've taken away their hidden status.

Humm...this is definitely makine PG Stalingrad look more doable......

[richvalle]

sure: a hidden unit loses its special status and must be placed on the board if......an enemy unit...conducts any type of fire.

In my opinion, the "...conducts any type of fire..." refers to the hidden unit. My comments in brackets.

"A hidden unit loses its special status and must be placed on the board if an enemy unit is able to spot it, or if it [the hidden unit] moves or [the hidden unit] conducts any type of fire.

I agree with Hugmenot on this. I think if the hidden unit conducts any type of fire it is non-hidden.

[richvalle]

Larry, the way you are reading the statement, if 'it' is the enemy unit a hidden unit would be spotted if the enemy MOVES.

[larry marak]

Yes, my original concern was that if a recon by fire was conducted that resulted in a morale check, and the hidden unit(s) passed the moral check with flying colors the die roll would tell the bombarding player that an enemy unit was there.

[Hugmenot]

As per Matt's earlier suggestion, always roll dice if your opponent bombards a hex, even if you don't have units there. If I remember correctly, one scenario in War on the Equator made the suggestion in the the SSR.