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Air attacks against "hidden" units
02-10-2014, 02:23 AM,
#11
RE: Air attacks against "hidden" units
(02-06-2014, 04:05 AM)nebelwurfer9 Wrote: Can air-strikes be made against hexes suspected of containing enemy units? Rule 15.11 states that "Aircraft may attack any HEXES on the board", note that is hex, not necessarily unit. In the 'Guadacanal' scenario book it says that fire against "hidden" units is reduced by one column for DF and bombardment, whether the hex is actually occupied or not. Aircraft fire is conducted on the DF table so it seems that they would qualify. I didn't see anything in the annotated rules mentioned as to whether or not this can be done. Inquiring minds want to know! Huh

Aircraft can strike hidden units, and are penalized for it too. This would be known as "area" fire/ suppression in military terms.
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02-10-2014, 02:55 AM,
#12
RE: Air attacks against "hidden" units
That was precisely why I asked the question as the core rule 15.11 states. In 'Guadalcanal' American units are encouraged to spray seemingly empty hexes with DF to reveal hidden units and aircraft are DF units. I suppose that it is left up to player discretion or interpretation though if nowhere it states absolutely that units can or cannot do this or that. The same would go for digging-in jungle hexes which are not woods and have different combat modifiers than woods; the rulebook only cites woods, towns and entrenchments are prohibited.
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02-10-2014, 03:39 AM,
#13
RE: Air attacks against "hidden" units
(02-10-2014, 02:55 AM)nebelwurfer9 Wrote: That was precisely why I asked the question as the core rule 15.11 states. In 'Guadalcanal' American units are encouraged to spray seemingly empty hexes with DF to reveal hidden units and aircraft are DF units. I suppose that it is left up to player discretion or interpretation though if nowhere it states absolutely that units can or cannot do this or that. The same would go for digging-in jungle hexes which are not woods and have different combat modifiers than woods; the rulebook only cites woods, towns and entrenchments are prohibited.

See the jungle rules post I just put in.
Personally, from a Soldier's perspective, I never understood that AP rule for no digging in town or wood, other than perhaps play balance; but in reality, with enough time, a Soldier can improve any terrain feature- it might take longer in woods (i.e. and extra turn, etc. assuming digging through roots, etc.). Swamps might be the exception...
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02-10-2014, 11:24 AM,
#14
RE: Air attacks against "hidden" units
(02-10-2014, 02:19 AM)armyduck95 Wrote: 3rd edition rules are clear in 15.11 - Aircraft can attack hidden units because they are special units that can attack any hex. This means, empty hexes, hidden units, and spotted units.

1. Remember - Aircraft are UNITS, and specifically per 15.11 Air Attack. "Aircraft may attack any hexes on the board. Each aircraft may attack one hex per turn. The owning player selects the
target hexes and places at least one aircraft in each target hex

2. Aircraft are units, once placed on a hex they have their own spotting ability in the same hex.

3. This rule models the unique aspect of aircraft is that they can conduct "reconnaissance" and "deep strike" on units without being controlled from the ground for close air support.

4. I believe the -1 column mod for hidden units is a fair rule to represent the counter measures of cover/camouflage by a hidden unt.

I agree that aircraft can attack any hex, but hidden units I would consider this. One clarification was that aircraft are not adjacent for combat purposes. They do not receive the +2 bonus for the attack and I would also extend this to spotting. So, although they can attack an empty hex, I believe any hidden units in the hex should not be revealed unless a combat result is obtained.

Aircraft can provide those extra eyes to a side but because the spotting is binary, you see everything or you don't on the board, I think this needs to be balance so aircraft are not bombing to spot. It just seems to gamey.
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02-10-2014, 01:13 PM,
#15
RE: Air attacks against "hidden" units
(02-10-2014, 11:24 AM)campsawyer Wrote:
(02-10-2014, 02:19 AM)armyduck95 Wrote: 3rd edition rules are clear in 15.11 - Aircraft can attack hidden units because they are special units that can attack any hex. This means, empty hexes, hidden units, and spotted units.

1. Remember - Aircraft are UNITS, and specifically per 15.11 Air Attack. "Aircraft may attack any hexes on the board. Each aircraft may attack one hex per turn. The owning player selects the
target hexes and places at least one aircraft in each target hex

2. Aircraft are units, once placed on a hex they have their own spotting ability in the same hex.

3. This rule models the unique aspect of aircraft is that they can conduct "reconnaissance" and "deep strike" on units without being controlled from the ground for close air support.

4. I believe the -1 column mod for hidden units is a fair rule to represent the counter measures of cover/camouflage by a hidden unt.

I agree that aircraft can attack any hex, but hidden units I would consider this. One clarification was that aircraft are not adjacent for combat purposes. They do not receive the +2 bonus for the attack and I would also extend this to spotting. So, although they can attack an empty hex, I believe any hidden units in the hex should not be revealed unless a combat result is obtained.

Aircraft can provide those extra eyes to a side but because the spotting is binary, you see everything or you don't on the board, I think this needs to be balance so aircraft are not bombing to spot. It just seems to gamey.

Agreed - to spot a concealed unit would require a successful acquisition/combat result to avoid being "gamey." but still have a chance of rewarding commitment of the force to confirm/deny enemy presence.
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