Poll: Is this usage of combat modifier valid?
You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
No, this is illegal
84.00%
21 84.00%
Yes, this is legal
16.00%
4 16.00%
Total 25 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
[Rules] 6.42 Firepower Enhancement
03-04-2023, 07:58 PM,
#29
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement
I guess I would only disagree about your RAW/RAI assessments--and I think this is the nexus of the confusion.

It comes down to how does the reader read/understand/interpret the sentence/paragraph structure used and what it says
But I contend this is NOT interpreting--it is the way it is written correctly--that understanding it to mean what I say it means
is a valid (perhaps the only valid) way to know what it says....

Specifically it comes down to how do you interpret 3.13: (I added underlines, italics and emphasis)
3.13 Unit Actions
(Para 1)The activated unit, leader or group performs actions in no specific order, but all actions must be designated before the first is performed.
Actions are either Movement or Fire.
Players need not pre-designate directions or targets - they just state which units* will move and which will fire this action segment.

(Para 2)"Movement" includes moving (5.0), digging in (16.2), limbering/unlimbering (5.63) or attempting to recover morale (14.4).
"Fire" includes direct fire (10.0), bombardment (9.0), anti-tank fire (11.0) and assault (12.0, even though initiating or joining an assault involves moving into the assault hex).

(Para 3)Once units** are done moving and firing, mark them with Moved/Fired markers. Units** marked with Moved/Fired markers may not activate again in the current turn except through Random Events (see Optional Rules).


*units in this context is in the same paragraph where the subject "unit, leader or group" precedes it in the paragraph.
The verbs(actions) taken by the items (subject) are identified...There are two kinds of Actions...
The author used "units" to mean the "unit, leader or group" previously defined as subject of the sentence instead of writing it out each time.
This also holds up in that leaders are called out in the subject group so why would they be part of the subject group in the first sentence, but not be considered as part of the reference to the "units" (not A UNIT, but units--meaning the subject group (I contend)) later in the paragraph, and in the Section. 
Clearly the author was aware of Leaders.  They are mentioned in the "subject group" in the first part of the first sentence. 
I find it hard to interpret the use of "units" later in the sentence to not mean to include them---and then to NOT discuss all these necessary mechanics WITHOUT
any reference to Leaders IF they were not included in the "units" as used.  Groups would be chain activations, groups of units and leaders---and it is thus all consistent.

**units used here I contend again refers to the "unit, leader and group" subject which were activated and had actions assigned,
introduced in the first sentence of the first paragraph of this Rules Section---Again, given that Leaders are not mentioned--I contend that the Author intends that
"units" here refers to them collectively in the subject group.

Your assertion that RAW and RAI differ is based on how you read that section, that set of paragraphs.

I do not read it the same way---I contend that the writing clearly is interpreted as I assess...your assertion that it's different
does not sustain examination (is my contention)...Thus there really is no variation --- the RAW and RAI are aligned...

I would contend that saying leaders, even though called out specifically in the text as part of the subject group to NOT be
part of that same subject group later in the same paragraph, and in the remainder of the Rules section 3.13 is the variant 
interpretation.
The reader has to mis-read the intention of the writing to make the case that leaders are treated differently.
Additionally, since there is no leader specific different treatment offered--the NEW VIEW interpretation creates, out of whole new cloth,
that leaders can do things, have a different mechanic, in the game--maintaining activation status, Marker placement, contributing factors
though action definition disallows it...


Thus, I contend that section 3.13--by specifically including leaders in the first sentence of the first paragraph of this section intends
to include leaders in the discussion of Unit actions offered.

This also strongly supports this conclusion:
Recall:
1.2 Definitions
Action Segment: The activation of a unit, leader, or stack of units, or a group of units and subordinate leaders under the direction of a single senior leader. Activated units may perform either fire or movement (morale recovery is a move action and assault is a fire action) (3.13).
Reply


Messages In This Thread
6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by Shad - 03-01-2023, 01:58 PM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by goosebrown - 03-01-2023, 03:58 PM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by Blackcloud6 - 03-01-2023, 10:50 PM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by Shad - 03-01-2023, 11:54 PM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by Blackcloud6 - 03-02-2023, 01:39 PM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by Shad - 03-02-2023, 12:32 AM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by plloyd1010 - 03-02-2023, 12:42 AM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by cjsiam - 03-02-2023, 12:52 AM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by Shad - 03-02-2023, 01:10 AM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by cjsiam - 03-02-2023, 09:15 AM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by Shad - 03-02-2023, 10:36 AM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by cjsiam - 03-02-2023, 12:57 PM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by Shad - 03-02-2023, 01:30 PM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by cjsiam - 03-02-2023, 02:36 PM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by plloyd1010 - 03-03-2023, 01:48 AM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by Shad - 03-03-2023, 12:46 AM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by goosebrown - 03-03-2023, 01:15 AM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by cjsiam - 03-03-2023, 11:19 AM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by cjsiam - 03-03-2023, 03:17 PM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by cjsiam - 03-04-2023, 02:30 PM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by cjsiam - 03-04-2023, 07:58 PM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by Blackcloud6 - 03-05-2023, 12:56 AM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by Sonora - 03-05-2023, 04:32 AM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by cjsiam - 03-05-2023, 11:26 AM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by Miguelibal - 03-05-2023, 02:10 PM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by cjsiam - 03-05-2023, 11:28 AM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by Blackcloud6 - 03-05-2023, 10:40 PM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by plloyd1010 - 03-06-2023, 09:40 AM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by goosebrown - 03-11-2023, 12:30 AM
RE: 6.42 Firepower Enhancement - by cjsiam - 03-11-2023, 03:56 PM

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)