Bombardment units in assault hexes

[cjsiam]

Okay we've got these 2 in the game:


Then there is British 3.7-infantry gun that has only appeared on close-support tanks:


These are direct fire weapons. We were talking about bombardment

The point of mentioning them was to consider how BF translated into a DF which would be used IN hex....
looking for equivalent DF units using the same weapon....

So when we think about Bombardment units, and consider If they might fire IN hex---what would their DF be if doing so?
That is what we were talking about---so comparisons of weapons which occur in both BF and DF forms provides insight....(that is my hypothesis...)

[plloyd1010]

The point of mentioning them was to consider how BF translated into a DF which would be used IN hex....
looking for equivalent DF units using the same weapon....

So when we think about Bombardment units, and consider If they might fire IN hex---what would their DF be if doing so?
That is what we were talking about---so comparisons of weapons which occur in both BF and DF forms provides insight....(that is my hypothesis...)

Actually that was the secondary point. In at least 2 previous posts, infantry guns were included mortars and howitzers. I think that is wrong (incongruous was the term I used), hence the question.

There is however a comparison to be made.

These 2 weapons are basically the same. The mountain howitzer is the later model infantry gun with a slightly different carriage.

[goosebrown]

Okay we've got these 2 in the game:


Then there is British 3.7-infantry gun that has only appeared on close-support tanks:


These are direct fire weapons. We were talking about bombardment

The point of mentioning them was to consider how BF translated into a DF which would be used IN hex....
looking for equivalent DF units using the same weapon....

So when we think about Bombardment units, and consider If they might fire IN hex---what would their DF be if doing so?
That is what we were talking about---so comparisons of weapons which occur in both BF and DF forms provides insight....(that is my hypothesis...)

OK That makes sense i guess. You might work out that a 150mm gun (which is 18 BF???) That might work out to an 8 for DF and thus assault. I could see that. I think that rockets and mortars are not OK for having firepower in assault, but guns/howitzers could be. I think a rule of thumb might be assault at .5 BF strength in assault. I could see that.

[goosebrown]

The point of mentioning them was to consider how BF translated into a DF which would be used IN hex....
looking for equivalent DF units using the same weapon....

So when we think about Bombardment units, and consider If they might fire IN hex---what would their DF be if doing so?
That is what we were talking about---so comparisons of weapons which occur in both BF and DF forms provides insight....(that is my hypothesis...)

Actually that was the secondary point. In at least 2 previous posts, infantry guns were included mortars and howitzers. I think that is wrong (incongruous was the term I used), hence the question.

There is however a comparison to be made.

These 2 weapons are basically the same. The mountain howitzer is the later model infantry gun with a slightly different carriage.

I get your point although the research side of me (the googlizer in me...) says they are not the same at all in terms of actual function. The IG had a ROF twice that of the mountain gun with a propellent charge half the weight of the mountain gun. The velocity on the IG was also less than half that of the mountain gun. I can see how the mountain gun ought to have some DF value in assault, but the functionality of the IG was absolutely more suited for it. 

I propose above that an Assault value of .5 the bombardment value of an artillery gun might be a good start for a house rule. I could go for that. But not mortars or rockets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5_cm_Geb...C3%BCtz_36

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5_cm_lei...C3%BCtz_18

[goosebrown]

Firing over open sights. Saipan

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/ar...ack-saipan

The Japanese overran the 105th Regiment, continued down the coastal plain and attacked a 10th Marine Artillery Battery positioned behind the 105th. The Marines were firing their 105mm howitzers, line of sight, directly into the oncoming waves of Japanese troops. But they still kept coming. The Marines destroyed their guns and fell back.

[cjsiam]

Personally I like the approach below....
0) In all instances below the Initial Assault attack has concluded and the Bombardment unit in question survived, and has an opportunity to activate (perhaps even disrupted?)
1) Mortars > 60mm, and rockets may not fire DF in same hex
    a) 60mm (and below) may fire but only if present with shielding infantry type (INF, MTC, BTC) (not demoralized)...and
    b) they fire normally, with +1 for visible target (mortars are still indirect and seeing has advantages)
3) For guns/Howitzers which have BF, but no DF....they would get DF factor at 1/2 their BF....2pts BF = 1 pt DF
    a) In order to fire DF there must be shielding infantry (INF, MTC, BTC) in the hex (else they are just too busy ducking to be hauling and loading ammunition...)
    b) they fire normally but without any +1 for target visible--it's DF...

So that 75Mtn gun would fire at 4, if accompanied by inf.....if not it could only Assault with a 1 (current rules)

Tear it up...

[goosebrown]

Personally I like the approach below....
[snip]
Tear it up...

I love this approach and want to bring it into my family as the third son I always wanted. It is very well thought out and I would love to see that as a house rule.

[cjsiam]

Personally I like the approach below....
[snip]
Tear it up...

I love this approach and want to bring it into my family as the third son I always wanted. It is very well thought out and I would love to see that as a house rule.

Clearly you are a wise and discerning individual who appreciates fine art, in all it's forms....
Clearly.....

[plloyd1010]

I'm not sold on the BF to DF exchange. It might work in a offense, pretty sure the concept would be a bit much on defense. I still favor bombarding with in the hex, no +2 modifier. Friendly fire should be applicable (usual chances), without the -1 modifier if it hits, when others in the hex are not assaulting. If assaulting, there should be dual results against the enemy and assaulting units.

In-hex bombardment should limited to light mortars (<60mm), field guns and howitzers and AA guns.
Medium mortars have a minimum range of about 1/2 a hex, heavy mortars can have a minimum range of over 2 hexes. The minimum range on rockets is even worse, so they are right out.

The line gets fuzzy for me with light mortars. The Italian Brixa is sometimes considered a mortar. The Japanese knee mortar is often considered a grenade launcher. American, British and German light mortars are integrated into the platoon's fire factor, thus already converted to DF. I can certainly see converting a light mortar to DF, a large howitzer, not so much.

[Schoenwulf]

So why are we trying to take this system and make it closer to ASL? One of the beautiful things about PG is that there are not a lot of complex situational rules.