Saipan:Caves

[campsawyer]

"If a player loses the assault (suffers more casualties than they inflict)..." Does "suffer more casualties" only mean step losses or do morale checks apply? If both sides suffer the same casualties does the assault hex remain with both side in the hex?

[JayTownsend]

I would think Morale checks would apply and if both sides suffer the same casaulties the hex remains in assault unless all the demoralized units left from one side. Again John tweek this one but that is how I would play it.

[campsawyer]

I would think Morale checks would apply and if both sides suffer the same casaulties the hex remains in assault unless all the demoralized units left from one side. Again John tweek this one but that is how I would play it.

Cool. Once again it is great to have the immediate clarifications for everyone.

[campsawyer]

Here is a big question on caves. The rule is clear on stacking, only 3 per hex no matter if they are in or out of the cave, but does that still count for the 3 unit column shift when firing?

This is critical as it hings the fate of one very good scenario.

[campsawyer]

Second big cave question, the modifier for caves reads "Units defending in a cave receive a -2 column modifier." Does this mean units inside the cave defend with a -2 shift? If so, how does this apply to a cave with both units inside and out?

[campsawyer]

Just finished a scenario with caves from Saipan. A very good scenario and a worthy one, but the caves rules has a hole, specifically with units both inside and out. As in my prior post how should the units be treated when they are in and out of the caves.

Here is an example, a Japanese LT 10-1-1, 2x4-3 INF are outside and a 6-4 HMG is inside. What happens when:

they are Direct Fired/Bombarded, do they count as a "3 stack" and the +1 column shift is applied or does the immunity for the 6-4 HMG extend to the column shifts?

they are assaulted, does the 6-4 HMG participate or is he screened by the outside INF's? If he does participate , how does the -2 column shift apply? If he is screened, does that mean that the units outside must be defeated first before he can be attacked?

These are key questions that depending on the answers could have changed the outcome of the scenario. Any thoughts are appreciated.

[JayTownsend]

Alan, think of an entrenchment, some units can be in and some out of it in the same hex. When you assault an entrenchment hex, same thing, different modifiers apply to units.

Cave benefits or protect only applies to units inside a cave. I hope that makes sense to you?

[campsawyer]

Ok, I believe that I have wrapped my mind around the assault with units inside and out. Here are some thoughts with regard to assaults:

- Units inside caves can First Fire on the attackers.

- The attacker assault gets a -2 column shift for units that are inside the cave only. This means a split column assault resolution similar to direct fire.

- Side with worst losses must leave cave hex, this includes units in an out of the cave. Other side gets Free Shot.

Jay, I would suggest this errata for the cave special rules:

"Units defending in a cave receive a -2 column modifier AS AN ATTACKER COLUMN MODIFIER."

[campsawyer]

Here is a big question on caves. The rule is clear on stacking, only 3 per hex no matter if they are in or out of the cave, but does that still count for the 3 unit column shift when firing?

This is critical as it hings the fate of one very good scenario.

This one is still an issue. Given that units in the cave are immune to DF/BF should they be counted as a "3 stack"?

[Shad]

Let me add to the confusion: is it rational for enemy units to be both in and out of caves and active in the same assault? I would think being in a cave precludes you from firing out of it, unlike an entrenchment. Now I haven't seen the Saipan rules so maybe this is explicit already...?