06-06-2012, 05:51 AM,
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Poor Yorek
Sergeant Major
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Posts: 607
Threads: 51
Joined: Jun 2012
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RE: Panzer Lehr and laser cut counters.
The entire row of Pz-IV F2 and Panther counters has the DF and AT values cut on the bottom and the AT yellow background certainly crosses over into the counter below it (the Pz-IV's into the Panthers, for example). I suppose AWDougherty can comment on what they look like when punched out.
Whilst one might not expect "perfection," - whatever that might mean - I submit that when one pays well-earned money for a product, that product should be held to professional standards: here, that means the artwork for the counters which, after all, along with the maps & scenarios constitute the essence of the game. Can one "make out" the values? Sure. But I'm suggesting that one should not be paying for a sloppy product and, especially, work that should never have passed a quality control check. If, as J6A suggests, this example is a singular printing (i.e. its not common to every printing of that particular sheet), then I believe that AWD should ask for and expect to get a replacement set from APL.
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06-06-2012, 06:03 AM,
(This post was last modified: 06-06-2012, 06:18 AM by awdougherty.)
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awdougherty
Recruit
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Posts: 43
Threads: 4
Joined: May 2012
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RE: Panzer Lehr and laser cut counters.
(06-06-2012, 05:51 AM)Poor Yorek Wrote: The entire row of Pz-IV F2 and Panther counters has the DF and AT values cut on the bottom and the AT yellow background certainly crosses over into the counter below it (the Pz-IV's into the Panthers, for example). I suppose AWDougherty can comment on what they look like when punched out.
Whilst one might not expect "perfection," - whatever that might mean - I submit that when one pays well-earned money for a product, that product should be held to professional standards: here, that means the artwork for the counters which, after all, along with the maps & scenarios constitute the essence of the game. Can one "make out" the values? Sure. But I'm suggesting that one should not be paying for a sloppy product and, especially, work that should never have passed a quality control check. If, as J6A suggests, this example is a singular printing (i.e. its not common to every printing of that particular sheet), then I believe that AWD should ask for and expect to get a replacement set from APL.
Yeah, this phrases my thoughts well. I feel that a professional standard in this case requires properly printed counters. I will be contacting AP to see if they will work with me about replacing the misaligned set, and AP is definitely not alone here. I've seen similar things from a number of other companies and as long as they do what they can to fix the mistake, I don't worry about it.
The burn marks will be a problem for me personally, however, and I'm not sure what can be done about that. I'll see if I have some time to punch and clip the counters tonight, maybe get another picture of them so people can compare. To me, scorch marks constitute damage, and I'm left to wonder if other companies who laser cut have the same issue. I think Worthington Games just went with a laser cutter, I thought I saw a video of it in action. I'd be curious to know how those counters turned out.
If the scorch marks are something that has to be accepted, then I have enough Panzer Grenadier, Second World War at Sea, and other non-AP wargames to last me three lifetimes, so Kursk will be my final PG (and possibly AP if this plagues all of their products) purchase.
edit: Here's the link to the Worthington Games laser cut video, doesn't look like they show the back.
Edit 2: sent an email to AP customer support. We'll see what happens.
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06-06-2012, 06:39 AM,
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J6A
Master Sergeant
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Posts: 718
Threads: 77
Joined: Jun 2012
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RE: Panzer Lehr and laser cut counters.
BTW, I think asking for a replacement for the small sheet is a perfectly reasonable request. As for avoiding scorch marks, its just not going to happen with the current state of laser technology. I mean, its burning through the counter sheet material. The scorch marks seem to be where the laser changes directions, maybe its there a millisecond longer and that causes scorches. As for other games, Dr. Mike has said that he hadn't planned to use laser cut counters for boxed games because of the price, so I have no idea if K:SF is the exception or the rule.
For me, the burn marks are no worse than corner nubs or flash on other counter sheets. I realize its a personal preference, and I guess because I knew they would be there, they don't bug me.
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06-06-2012, 07:05 AM,
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awdougherty
Recruit
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Posts: 43
Threads: 4
Joined: May 2012
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RE: Panzer Lehr and laser cut counters.
The main reason I ordered Panzer Lehr was to see how the laser cutting worked out, and I think laser cutting was specifically mentioned as part of the press material for it. I have no problems with that experiment not working out for me personally. With Kursk, however, I feel like it was a really late decision in the process without giving me the chance to see the results with Lehr.
I won't complain too much because it's AP's thing, they can steer the ship as they see fit. I personally would have preferred die-cut counters knowing what I do now with Lehr, and for 99% of the time I'd known about Kursk, that's what I expected.
For me, the scorch marks are worse that corner nubs only because I clip my counters, but again, I realize all of this is my personal preference. Anyway, I'm sure the game itself will be very solid, but I have my particularities concerning the aesthetics.
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