Panzer Lehr vs. Panzer Lehr 2

[Greyfox]

All,

    Hopefully just a simple question to answer.  Is there any difference between Panzer Lehr an Panzer Lehr 2 other than number of counters?  I did a quick look at the scenarios.  In both editions there are the same number of scenarios, with the same names, and in the same order.  I have a copy of Panzer Lehr 2 and imagine that this means I have both games (copies of supplements) all rolled up into one.

Mike 

[larry marak]

Yes..second edition included Lehr leader counters..unless leader values are different, you habe the fullest product.

[Greyfox]

Thank you.

[Dan Storm]

So - I notice that only 2% of the population own Panzer Lehr 2 - its # 99 out of 99 - Dead Last - And No None has Medaled / AAR'ed / Played / Or even Rated It.

If I own Panzer Lehr 1 - is it worth my time and cash to buy Panzer Lehr 2?

Exactly what is included in the extra 74 counters? 102 vs 176.

Are we to believe that all 74 bonus counters are Leaders?

Thanks!

[plloyd1010]

There are a lot more vehicles. Armor and 1/2tracks. A couple goliaths for the 316. Funklenk-Panzerkompanie. And there are the afore mentioned 24 leader counters..

[Poor Yorek]

So - I notice that only 2% of the population own Panzer Lehr 2 - its # 99 out of 99 - Dead Last - And No None has Medaled / AAR'ed / Played / Or even Rated It.

IIRC Daniel and/or Matt were playing through PL a few years ago.

I've not purchased it because, as I understand, a great many scenarios were designed with hidden units and thus somewhat problematic for solo play (not impossible, of course).  I concede the lure of the counters is strong in this one, but I've so many yet-to-be-played scenarios that ... 

[Hugmenot]

Yes, Matt and I played a baker's dozen scenarios before calling it quits.

If I recall correctly, all scenarios have a number of hidden units and they play a large role, much larger than the hidden units in the Liberation '44 scenarios in my experience. Matt played a few more scenarios solitaire this past year and he enjoyed them. You may want to read some of his AAR's to see how he plays them.

[J6A]

The hidden units are what has kept me away from it. Maybe I'll find a local opponent.

[petermc]

I don't have the second version...however the extra units are just German units with Lehr markings, right?

I'm not sure the game warrants a second entry with all the same scenarios repeated...or are the Lehr 2 leader counters distinct/unique and/or did the scenarios change?

[Hugmenot]

Same scenarios as far as I know. There might be a few minor changes but I have never seen the final product so can't tell for certain.

The Lehr leaders are insanely good and will tilt the balance in the German's favor. I strongly recommend using the Elsenborn Ridge leaders instead. The issue with great formations getting great leaders is the formation already has a higher than usual morale and will surely be assisted by a "1" or "2" morale leader in almost all morale checks and recoveries; too good in my opinion. Personally, and I voiced that concern to Mike in relation to another game now published, I would much prefer leaders with high morale values but very few with nonzero combat or morale modifiers. The problem is further compounded in scenarios with low unit-to-leader ratios.