[Rules] APC's in assault?

[Schoenwulf]

When an APC transporting a foot combat unit enters an adjacent hex for an assault, is the combat unit allowed to count its firepower in the assault in that action segment? Or does it unload in that segment and have to wait until the next turn to contribute to the assault?

[plloyd1010]

The transported unit cannot add its firepower while loaded. The APC may unload before assault combat, its former passenger may contribute in the assault.

[Schoenwulf]

The transported unit cannot add its firepower while loaded. The APC may unload before assault combat, its former passenger may contribute in the assault.

Thanks for the quick response, and am I understanding this correctly as follows? ....the APC and transported unit would first do a "move" activation in the hex adjacent to the enemy to be assaulted; this would allow the unit to disembark, with both units possibly risking opp fire from the adjacent unit(s). Then in an action segment in the next turn, both units could do a "fire" move for the assault, assuming that either a regular good-order leader was also in the their hex, or in an adjacent hex from which that leader could order the assault.

[plloyd1010]

The passenger unit would not need to disembark before the APC moves into the assault hex.

1. Loaded APC (with passenger) moves next to enemy hex.
   
2. Next turn, APC moves into assault hex.
   
3. Passenger unit debarks.
   
4. Assault combat begins
   

Yes, you could get hammered by Opfire.

[Schoenwulf]

The passenger unit would not need to disembark before the APC moves into the assault hex.

1. Loaded APC (with passenger) moves next to enemy hex.
   
2. Next turn, APC moves into assault hex.
   
3. Passenger unit debarks.
   
4. Assault combat begins
   

Yes, you could get hammered by Opfire.

Thanks again. My confusion was with the statement in Section 3.13 that indicates that units may either move or fire or move in an action segment. Assault is then identified as a "fire" action in Section 12.11, which defines the move into the hex as "assault movement", allowing for hex entry, but does not mention any other allowed movement. Since unloading is a move order, separate from the "assault movement", I wanted to make sure that this additional "move" was also consistent with the rules. It seems to provide a nice protection for the combat unit from opp fire prior to a planned assault, if one is assaulting an enemy hex with no option for AT fire at least.

[otto]

Peter sorry but I think your 1,2,3 and 4 doesn't provide a clear picture of the turn sequence. Or yes?
For instance, if I'm not wrong, the INF unit can not asault in the same turn in which it disembarks. Can it actually unload in the same turn in which the AFV enters the assault hex?
I do not have the rules with me but I think 4th edition is quite clear about it.
...how are you?
Ottavio

[plloyd1010]

Rule 5.67 says "In a hex containing enemy units, a unit being transported may unload as a movement action, but it may not load."

So, the rules specifically say they may unload, but may not load.

[enrique]

Iin my opinion Otto is right. Assault is a Fire action and unloading is a Movement action. The correct sequence is:

1. Loaded APC (with passenger) moves next to enemy hex.

2. Next turn, APC (with passenger) moves into assault hex and combat assault begins. Only APC fires.

3. Next turn, debarks passenger unit.

This is clearly stated in 5.67 (example).

[Hugmenot]

Loading and unloading are movement actions and thus a transport unit (and the transported unit) cannot conduct any type of fire during the action segment the loading or unloading occurs.

Turn 1: Loaded APC (with passenger) moves next to enemy units.
Turn 2: APC (with passenger) moves into assault hex and combat assault begins. Only the APC can fire in the assault .
Turn 3: The APC and the transported unit conduct a move action to unload. Note that the enemy may NOT conduct Opportunity Fire against the unloading unit as 13.11 states "A moving unit (and any leader moving with it) or leader moving without an accompanying unit may be attacked in any hex(es) within enemy range that it enters along its movement path" and the unloading unit is not entering an hex.
Turn 4. Both the APC and the unloaded unit can participate in the assault.

==

Another possible strategy is as follows:

Turn 1: Loaded APC (with passenger) moves next to enemy units.
Turn 2: The APC and the transported unit conduct a move action to unload. While the enemy may NOT conduct Opportunity Fire against the unloading unit, they can use Direct Fire against it when they activate.
Turn 3: The APC and the unloaded unit conduct a fire action and assault the enemy.

[Schoenwulf]

Iin my opinion Otto is right. Assault is a Fire action and unloading is a Movement action. The correct sequence is:

1. Loaded APC (with passenger) moves next to enemy hex.

2. Next turn, APC (with passenger) moves into assault hex and combat assault begins. Only APC fires.

3. Next turn, debarks passenger unit.

This is clearly stated in 5.67 (example).

Step 3 in the example above is what caused me to ask the initial question, as 5.67 indicates that "neither unit may conduct an assault that turn". The situation leaves both units as sitting ducks for an assault counterattack by the enemy in that turn; however unloading in the adjacent hex also results in significant risk due to the 2 column shift for direct fire from an adjacent hex. All of this caused me to wonder if there was any real use to having a loaded APC involved in any phase of an assault due to the benefit/risk ratio. In considering a combat situation, it would seem that the APC should be able to unload the unit and fire in Step 3, since the MG on the APC could be firing while the unit disembarked.